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Article V and the John Birch Society: Allies Separated By A Common Goal (Vanity)
Vanity ^ | 04-14-2015 | Michael Alexander (Vanity)

Posted on 03/14/2015 8:43:48 AM PDT by Strawberry AZ

Of the many people I've met over the last two years who are opponents of an Article V Convention of States to Propose Amendments to the Constitution, one of my greatest regrets is that there are many with whom I would most likely agree on virtually every other issue in modern-day political discourse. Many of them, however, almost proudly admit that their positions on a COS are rooted in a decades-old fear of the unknown and an inability to trust their fellow citizens, while most COS proponents put their faith in stringent, new safeguards and an optimistic view of the future. The irony of it all is that we are ostensibly striving for the same outcome… a safer, stronger, more democratic republic of sovereign states.

I am corresponding with one such COS opponent who is involved in an eMail campaign in another state, attempting to defeat our COS legislation. I’ve told him that I cannot wish him good luck in his attempt to scuttle the efforts of good, strong, constitutionalists who only want a free and open national debate in a forum guaranteed to introduce conservatism and Originalist thinking to a public starved for such concepts, starved intentionally by a left-leaning media. I hear opponents of a COS deride their fellow citizens for not having sufficient knowledge in civic matters, rendering them unqualified, the opponents say, to participate in something as critical as the amendment process, while they themselves blindly follow an outdated strategy of obstructionism that prevents the public from receiving the very education that they say is lacking. I find no sound logic in that, nor do I see a genuine concern for educating the public. I see a smoke screen, a straw man, an excuse to justify their knee-jerk resistance.

A national forum such as a COS would not only garner wall-to-wall attention from our own media, but from political observers the world over. We don't pretend to expect positive coverage from the Alphabet Networks, but the truth is that they no longer have a monopoly on the news. Even negative coverage of conservative principles is better than no coverage at all… it just might be enough to spark curiosity, to start people thinking, some of whom admittedly aren't accustomed to thinking for themselves.

If it makes them curious, then that’s good. Curious people do curious things… curious and predictable things. They will seek out the other side of the story… they will find FNC, they will find C-SPAN, they will find Drudge and Lucianne.com and Free Republic and Breitbart and Red State and countless Facebook pages and Twitter accounts where they will learn about the Founders' vision for America, unvarnished and unfiltered by Big Government or its lackeys in the public schools and in the mainstream press.

Just one hour of debate between an eloquent proponent of a balanced budget amendment and an equally passionate big spender would be the equivalent of a PhD in economics for the low-information viewer… and which argument do we honestly think would prevail with the majority?

Or, how about listening to a red state legislator who can clearly illustrate the terrible waste, fraud and abuse caused by overlapping and redundant federal, state and county regulations, one who is conversant in the Doctrine of Exclusive Jurisdiction and can elaborate on state sovereignty and the simplicity and efficiency of single-authority subject-matter jurisdiction… up against a less liberty-loving blue state delegate who finds himself in the untenable position of trying to justify federal intervention into matters such as public education, energy production, medical and health issues, possession and sale of firearms, land use and building codes, water resources, liability insurance, lending practices, and voting rights, just to name a few.

In trying to make the point that any effort to pass an amendment would be futile because our current crop of politicians would simply ignore it, my correspondent asked for an example of a proposed amendment that would “turn oathbreakers into oathkeepers,” which I took to mean cause legislators to live within the law, rather than above it. I provided him with the following list of just the raw topics, the headlines, if you will, of some of the various proposals that could be introduced and publicly debated at an amendments convention. I challenged him to try to think, as he read down the list, of the last time he heard any of these issues debated or even casually discussed in any kind of public forum, and to then think about the reaction that such ideas would invariably have across the vast majority of the Heartland.

Since he claimed to want public education, I provided him with a syllabus:

- A proposal to clarify the Necessary and Proper Clause, which authorizes Congress to enact laws that are "appropriate" and plainly adapted for carrying into execution Congress's enumerated powers; it does not authorize Congress to enact any law that Congress thinks is "reasonable." In other words, to invoke Necessary and Proper, a law must be "plainly adapted" to an enumerated end, a valid constitutional exercise of power by the Federal government.

- A proposal to reduce federal spending by clarifying the General Welfare Clause. The original view was that the federal government could not spend money on any issue that was naturally within the jurisdiction of the states.

- A proposal to reduce federal regulatory power by clarifying the Commerce Clause. The original view was that Congress was granted a narrow and exclusive power to regulate shipments across state lines - not ALL the economic activity of the entire nation.

- Similarly, as mentioned earlier, a proposal to establish the doctrine of Exclusive Jurisdiction, whereas one level of government - either state or federal, but not both - would have "subject matter jurisdiction" over any issue, eliminating overlapping and redundant regulation. If an issue can be properly and effectively regulated by the state, then the federal government would have no say in the matter.

- A proposal to prohibit the use of international treaties and international law to govern or guide the domestic law of the United States.

- A proposal to limit the use of Executive Orders and federal regulations to enact rules with the force of law, since the Constitution states clearly that Congress is to be the exclusive agency to enact laws.

- A proposal to impose mandatory lifetime term limits on members of Congress, all federal judges and justices of the Supreme Court.

- A proposal to require the sunset of all existing federal taxes, and require a super-majority vote of both chambers of Congress to re-instate or replace them.

- A proposal to outlaw "omnibus" bills, requiring only Single Subject bills.

- A proposal to repeal the Seventeenth Amendment so that our United States Senators once again represent and are answerable to our state legislators.

- And lastly, a Balanced Budget Amendment proposal requiring that the federal government spend no more than it takes in. The proposed amendment would also place an upper limit on federal taxation, requiring the states, not Congress, to ratify any request from the president for a debt ceiling increase. The proposal would redefine "debt" to include spending plus liabilities, would include an override waiver provision for national emergencies which would require a ¾ vote of Congress and would last for only one year. Any third consecutive National Emergency waiver would prohibit any member of that year's Congress from running for re-election.

But, since my questioner had asked for a single example, I told him that if I had to choose from that list just one proposal to be ratified as an amendment, one which would meet his requirement of turning “oathbreakers into oathkeepers,” it would have to be Term Limits.

The very prospect of an amendment to impose lifetime term limits on all federal officials is the primary reason that I support this movement. Since the Supreme Court ruled that the voters of a sovereign state don't have the right to impose term limits on their own locally-elected federal delegation, I can see no other way for us ever to bring an end to career politicians, including those who wear black robes to work.

Resolving that one issue, I believe, would go a very long way toward eliminating many of the most pressing issues that we face. Washington, DC, without a doubt, has become the most powerful and one of the most corrupt cities in the world, and no one who enters its enormous sphere of influence can help but be changed by it... and rarely for the better.

Virtually every politician's top priority, regardless of party, platform or principle, is to get re-elected. As soon as they arrive, they are surrounded by and steeped in the career mentality that pervades Washington, D.C. It is imposed on them, infused into them, particularly by the old dogs, the veterans, the party leaders, and soon the urgency of becoming a part of that culture of power supersedes anything they may have promised during their campaign. The wants and needs of the people who sent them there - the folks back home - all take a back seat to the new imperative - raise money for the Party, and ultimately for re-election.

In order for a newly elected candidate to maintain the party's financial support come election time, deals are made that have nothing to do with what's in the best interest of the voters back home. Legislation is passed at the direction of the party leadership, for instance, without a single legislator having read it. Does any of this sound anything like what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they coined the term, "Citizen Legislator"?

Meanwhile, we keep doing as we're told by The Establishment and the near-sighted automatons of The Eagle Forum and the John Birch Society… we throw the bums out… we vote in another conservative. We keep sending good people to Washington, only to see them disappear into the meat-grinder that is Congress, and come out the other side just so much baloney! If there were Term Limits and the candidate knew going in that their term was limited by constitutional edict, I firmly believe that they would think twice before casting a vote on legislation that could have a severe impact on the very communities to which they themselves will soon be returning… to live among the rest of us, to work at a job like a normal person again, outside of the Beltway Bubble, forced to bear the burden of whatever damned-fool laws Congress might pass with little or no concern for the unintended consequences they have on the daily lives of real people throughout this country.

And before anyone says that removing the "perks" of congressional service will cause a brain drain, and that no one of any consequence will want to run for an office that they can only hold for such a short amount of time, I would submit to you that if the folks up there running things right now are the best and the brightest that money, power and prestige can buy, then I think it's time for their de facto defenders, the opponents of a Convention of States, to open their eyes, join our ranks and help give some of us poor, stupid, uneducated people a chance… we couldn't possibly screw it up any worse!

And as for my anti-constitutionalist pen-pal, we truly are allies separated by a common goal.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: amendment; articlev; birchers; constitution; convention; jbs; johnbirchsociety
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Exhibit 1: who’ll choose COS delegates in good old conservative Texas?

Google Texas House Speaker Joe Strauss...


21 posted on 03/14/2015 12:13:33 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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To: VitacoreVision

I have never seen a source for the “Soros wants a convention” story other than the John Birch Society itself. Can you cite one?


22 posted on 03/14/2015 12:14:29 PM PDT by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: ziravan

“...who’ll choose the delegates?...”
-
State legislatures.


23 posted on 03/14/2015 12:21:46 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy, and he is us.)
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To: ziravan

Consider this, you want the fight to be at the state level but don’t trust the state level Republicans.

You’re not really arguing a recipe for success.


24 posted on 03/14/2015 12:22:19 PM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: Repeal The 17th

State Legislatures. Exactly.

Again. Look up Texas House Speaker Joe Straus.

You won’t even get right minded delegates from states like Texas. Now, imagine who NY, CA, and MA will send...


25 posted on 03/14/2015 12:24:33 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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To: ziravan

Other questions:

Q: “What will the delegates propose?
A: Some good things and some bad things.

Q: What happens then?
A: 3/4 of state legislatures would have to approve.

Q: Will they repeal the 2nd amendment?
A: IF (big if) such a thing was proposed, 3/4 of States would never ratify it.

What else are you worried about?


26 posted on 03/14/2015 12:27:16 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy, and he is us.)
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To: Bogey78O

Until legislatures can stand up to fight fedzilla directly, how can they be trusted to send right-minded delegates to a COS?

The contradiction isn’t with my POV, but with yours: that a state govt too scared to stand up to the fedgov on a daily basis will do so when it counts...


27 posted on 03/14/2015 12:28:11 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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To: ziravan

You’re arguing until they fight they shouldn’t fight.

Direct action you take such as banning the EPA, seizing revenue en route, and other things is picking a direct fight that requires a lot of conflict. A CoS is a less aggressive way to get the result we need.

You want a fistfight in the middle of the street and until you get it you don’t support even giving the guy a mean look.
You want a guy punched square in the nose while CoS supporters


28 posted on 03/14/2015 12:39:48 PM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: Repeal The 17th

The Articles of Confed required unanimous consent to reform. The Constitutional Convention altered the terms of ratification to 3/4ths of states.

You hold out ratification as an immovable check against overreach. Ironic since it’s current form is the result of moving the goalpost on ratification.

More to the point, the chief problem with COS is this insistence by its supporters that people used to making the rules will actually follow the rules as written. The folly of that thinking is if it were true, a COS wouldn’t be necessary: the Constitution as written would suffice.


29 posted on 03/14/2015 12:40:57 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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To: Bogey78O

I’m arguing that when the states finally decide to stand up and fight, we actually still have potent tools short of a COS.

We should employ those tools, first.

The idea that a COS is the last straw and we are already there is flawed. There are plenty of options between here and there for states motivated to rein in the fedgov. Read the Federalist Papers. Our Founders were quite certain that the states would have an upper hand in battle with the fedgov. That’s how they designed the system to work.


30 posted on 03/14/2015 12:45:20 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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I have someplace to be so I’m walking away from this thread not because it isn’t a discussion worth having, but because I’m out of time to continue for now. Have a great weekend.


31 posted on 03/14/2015 12:50:56 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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To: ziravan

What on God’s green earth does the old
Articles of Confederation have to do with anything?

If you believe there are 38 state legislatures
that would ratify what you and I would call a “bad” amendment,
then you must believe the Republic is already lost.

If you really believe that, you should just log-off
and go bury your head in the sand somewhere,
because it means you have given up and surrendered.

Get with the program, or get out of the way.
An Article V Convention of States is the last recourse that
we have before something much much uglier comes our way.


32 posted on 03/14/2015 12:51:46 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy, and he is us.)
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To: ziravan

“...we actually still have potent tools short of a COS.
We should employ those tools, first...”
-
Like what?


33 posted on 03/14/2015 12:53:53 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy, and he is us.)
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To: ziravan

A lot of those tools have been weakened and worn down due to abuses in the federal system already. The judicial expansion of the commerce clause and amendments turning Senate seats over to popular vote.

The CoS was also one of those reliefs.

Some of the methods you suggest would put the onus on federal courts to rule legitimacy. How do you think they’ll rule?

As said earlier, any runaway CoS issues have to rely on total capitulation of 3/4 of state govs.


34 posted on 03/14/2015 1:01:38 PM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: VitacoreVision; Strawberry AZ; Da Bilge Troll
Someone else at FR posted that Bircher baloney from January 2014.

I put on rubber boots and crept into the leftist ooze of the lefty websites cited in the column.

None of them supported Article V. There isn't any reason at all for progs to invite conservatives to amend a constitution that progs are happily destroying. If progs supported Article V, we would hear of it from MSDNC.

35 posted on 03/14/2015 1:17:15 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V. If not now, when?)
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To: Jacquerie

All the JBS people I encountered believed in conspiracies that eventually ended up being caused by the JOOOOOS.


36 posted on 03/14/2015 1:22:46 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you are not part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: VitacoreVision
<>Constitutional convention advocate Mark Meckler praised the participation of Democrats and others in the movement.<>

I'll accept your quote at face value. Meckler is right.

Most Americans are stuck fast in the rut of political parties; so is congress. The fact is that some rats in state legislatures will have to cross over, will have to change their minds in order to peacefully reform the government.

There is no guarantee they will do so. As opposed to the left, we do not seek to impose amendments to the constitution. It isn't in our conservative DNA to use tyrannical means to achieve republican ends.

If one fourth of the states object to reform, so be it.

37 posted on 03/14/2015 1:35:53 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V. If not now, when?)
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To: ziravan

Since the Framers designed a state appointed senate, and specifically rejected one that was popularly derived, I agree entirely with your post.


38 posted on 03/14/2015 1:40:23 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V. If not now, when?)
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To: ziravan; Repeal The 17th
You echo the Birchers.

The Articles of Confederation were a collection legislative acts among thirteen republics. Legislative acts may be altered by subsequent legislatures. The states regularly blew off their duties under the AC via statutes. It was their right to do so.

The 1787 Philadelphia federal convention of states altered nothing. The draft constitution was sent to congress. Congress voluntarily sent it to the states. States voluntarily hosted constitutional conventions of the people's reps. The reps voluntarily ratified the constitution.

Then, as now and forever, the people have a God given right to frame their government.

The only worthwhile amendments to the constitution are of a structural nature, such as repeal of the 17th Amendment, term limits, etc. These are the sort of changes that cannot be ignored.

Article V. There is nothing to lose.

39 posted on 03/14/2015 1:52:52 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V. If not now, when?)
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To: ziravan
I believe that the big push for an Article V convention is that conservatives believe that we have lost control over the federal government, but still have some control over the state governments.

When Republicans held the presidency conservatives generally approved of an "imperial president" presiding over a Democrat congress. Ever since the Democrats grabbed hold of the presidency, not so much.

Now that Republicans hold most of the state houses we are seeing arguments against the 17th Amendment, against the Supreme Court decision in Reynold vs. Sims., and calls in favor of secession.

It was thought that the Republicans supported conservatism in opposition to the liberal Democrats. Now it seems to be believed that state legislatures will be the army to fight for conservatism in opposition to federal politicians.

If most state legislatures truly are stalwart conservatives then we can trust them to take control during any Article V convention. If, however, they are not then we can't trust them in an Article V convention nor trust them to take tax dollars and control away from the feds.

At least with an Article V convention we wouldn't be asking the state legislatures to do anything that could be considered illegal.

40 posted on 03/14/2015 2:15:16 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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