[DoughtyOne]

I’m not convinced your scenario plays out the way you think.

Did Hussein need Kuwait’s wealth? I don’t think so.

It had it’s own oil reserves and didn’t even use them to their full potential.

I think this was a power grab. I think he had his sights on more than Kuwait, and I’m not thinking Iran. I think he wanted the entire Arabian Peninsula.

If you look at the Saudi Arabian nation, it’s not that heavily populated. You take out the capital and you pretty much control the nation. Was that his plan? I don’t honestly know. Was Kuwait him testing the waters? Perhaps so. Perhaps not.

With a guy like Hussein, he doesn’t mellow out and get less dangerous. He and his sons were almost demonic people.

You know, as I write this I think of the people of Iraq. They have had to deal with Hussein, his sons, the war, the peace, and now ISIS.

These are people who are living what some folks want the U. S. to be like. They aren’t attacking other nations now. They don’t have a massive military machine. They are minding their own business, trying to make a life for themselves.

Now this. If there’s anything to be learned from all this, it’s that sitting around in your own nation minding your own business isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

I wouldn’t fault us on Iraq.

I would very much fault us for not going to war with Mexico to end the invasion.

That’s what needs to end. We also need to keep our forces on station around the world, or we become exactly what the Iraqis are today.

Let’s say the U. S. does pull back from everywhere and just stay within it’s borders. Do you think for one second the Left in the U. S. would be satisfied with that?

You know, or should, that the Left will not stop until we don’t have one person in uniform.

We need to hold our ground where we are, or lose it all.

IMO, Hussein had his eyes on the whole of the

[Cronos]

DO: Did Hussein need Kuwait’s wealth? I don’t think so.

It had it’s own oil reserves and didn’t even use them to their full potential.

I think this was a power grab. I think he had his sights on more than Kuwait, and I’m not thinking Iran. I think he wanted the entire Arabian Peninsula.

to the point of did he need Kuwait's wealth --

1. I believe he needed Kuwait's wealth and I base it on the Iran-Iraq war, it's proceedings and aftermath. Saddam took money from the Gulf states to fight Iran. He believed they owed him the money as he was doing the fighting on their behalf. He also believed that he needed more money to fight them and wanted that money.
2. Secondarily, he also had an aggrievance that the Kuwaitis were drawing more than their fair share of the oil reserve that straddles the border (I don't know enough to verify or dispute that claim)
3. thirdly, he also claimed -- with reason -- that Kuwait was artificially created out of Iraq by the British (though forgetting that Iraq itself was an artificial creation).

To the point of power grab -- yes, it was a power grab to get more money both directly from Kuwait and indirectly by threatening the Gulf states

To the point of land grab -- I find no corroboration for your statement that "he wanted the entire Arabian peninsula" -- but that was a possibility. However, he wouldn't have even thought of taking Saudi Arabia because of Mecca and Medina -- he would have the Egyptians fighting him and probably the Turks as well. Maybe the Gulf region, yes.

[Cronos]

DO: If you look at the Saudi Arabian nation, it’s not that heavily populated. You take out the capital and you pretty much control the nation.

Not quite -- if you look at the history of the first Saudi state (in the 1700s) and later on, you will see that there is no central power in the lands conquered by the Sauds. There were and are myriad tribes and clans and the Saudis conquered them. Their capital is in the east Riyadh and surroundings but they have a power base in Mecca and Medina as well.

To conquer "Saudi ARabia" you just need to convince various tribes and clans to stop following the Sauds.(ok, and that's not simple)

[Cronos]

DO: With a guy like Hussein, he doesn’t mellow out and get less dangerous. He and his sons were almost demonic people.

I never said he would mellow out. his aim was to become another Nimrud with his Akkadian Empire

But he would have had his hands full with the Iranis (who he hated and who hated him). To the north, the Turks. To the West he would probably have taken out the Assads but be held back by Shias in Lebanon and Alawis and Druze (not to mention Israel). To the south, his army may have taken the Gulf area but not into Mecca and Medina

Finally - he may have been "almost demonic" in your opinion, but I say he was a pussy cat compared to the Islamic state

And, since I am unashamedly pro-Christian, my take is that he was better for Christians than the other alternatives

[Cronos]

DO: I think of the people of Iraq.

Iraq is a false construct. Like the African states, this would collapse as the borders are arbitrary with tribes spilling over. You have Kurds in the north who have peoples in Turkey, Syria and Iran. You have Shias in the south who are more tied to the Shia Arabs in Eastern Saudia. You have Assyrian Christians who are spread (or were spread) around Mosul. And you have Sunnis who are closer to the Sunnis in Eastern Syria. You had 3 separate Ottoman provinces stitched together by the English

Then you have Lebanon which should have been 3 separate states but was stitched together by the French

This was the same as the false durand line that split Pathans between Afghanistan and Pakistan

[Cronos]

DO: I wouldn’t fault us on Iraq.

I don't fault the USA, I fault Bush Senior and the Saudis. the USA and the world would have been better off if gulf war one hadn't happened

Yes,even the IRaqis would have been better off.

[Cronos]

DO: Let’s say the U. S. does pull back from everywhere and just stay within it’s borders. Do you think for one second the Left in the U. S. would be satisfied with that?

I wasn't talking about that -- I was talking specifically about Iraq. I don't think the USA should pull back from "everywhere" -- we should use force where it serves our interest. So, the war against the Taliban was correct. But Gulf War one was not in the USA's interest. Neither was the bombing of the Serbs.