Posted on 01/17/2016 6:06:27 AM PST by Travis McGee
They were armed and had the duty to defend their vessels from being taken (by scuttling them themselves if necessary). They failed to discharge that duty
Some officer gave the order to surrender those vessels without a fight
Either the LT on the scene recieved and order to surrender his two boats or he took it upon himself to do so
I want to know which it was. If the LT recieved an order I want to know who gave it.
There needs to be an open congressional hearing on this, and an Article 32 investigation
The best patsy is the ones who are oblivious to the scheme.
A nuclear triggering device or other piece of uber technical gadgetry could have been on one of those boats, the Iranian “inspector” went right to where it was suposed to be and now all this huu-bub is just that.
The capabilities of our sworn enemy has just been advanced.(?)
Dont worry. Im the paranoid one.
That the hell is wrong with them?
I agree, and I want to state that it’s not my intent to slam the Riverine Squadrons. Yes, they are in the same USN as the SWCCs, but their mission and personnel could not be more different.
In my opinion, they were either jammed effectively and prevented from calling for help, or they called for help, and the PC JAG pu$$y on the other end told them “UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL YOU FIRE FIRST!!!”
Well, the Iranians are not stupid, at all, and they know our ROE to the letter. That dynamic means that a Mexican Standoff at point-blank machine gun range will turn into an American surrender, once the English speaker on the loudspeaker yells, “Stand away for your weapons or we will slaughter you!”
One thing for sure, those ten sailors went through some intensive “re-education” during their “re-integration” (after a one day detention). They probably had to sign very scary NDA, such that if they ever talk, they’ll be sent to Leavenworth. Pure BS and bluff, but they are kids, and scared, and ashamed too, I’ll bet.
Amen to that!
That’s fantasy.
A mall cop is not Jason Bourne.
Even Jason Bourne is a fantasy.
And RS are the mall cops of the small boat navy.
PS: This administration is so risk-averse that they wrote off the Benghazi mission while it was under attack and risked being overrun and everybody massacred.
You think they are going to strap a nuke onto a mall-cop RS boat?
Not the whole thing. just one or two specific and very expensive pieces.
You know the ones that Kerry forgot to accidentally leave behind on his last negotiating visit for the nuke deal.
Nah, not reality.
Our traitors are in surrender mode, the Iranians know this perfectly well.
Not like Reagan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
Operation Praying Mantis was an attack on 18 April 1988, by U.S. forces within Iranian territorial waters in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf during the Iran–Iraq war and the subsequent damage to an American warship.
On 14 April, the guided missile frigate USS Samuel B. Roberts struck a mine while deployed in the Persian Gulf as part of Operation Earnest Will, the 1987–88 convoy missions in which U.S. warships escorted reflagged Kuwaiti oil tankers to protect them from Iranian attacks. The explosion blew a 15-foot hole in Samuel B. Roberts ’​s hull and nearly sank it. The crew saved their ship with no loss of life, and Samuel B. Roberts was towed to Dubai on 16 April. After the mining, U.S. Navy divers recovered other mines in the area. When the serial numbers were found to match those of mines seized along with the Iran Ajr the previous September, U.S. military officials planned a retaliatory operation against Iranian targets in the Persian Gulf.
According to Bradley Peniston, the attack by the U.S. helped pressure Iran to agree to a ceasefire with Iraq later that summer, ending the eight-year conflict between the Persian Gulf neighbors.[3]
On 6 November 2003, the International Court of Justice ruled that “the actions of the United States of America against Iranian oil platforms on 19 October 1987 (Operation Nimble Archer) and 18 April 1988 (Operation Praying Mantis) cannot be justified as measures necessary to protect the essential security interests of the United States of America.” However, the International Court of Justice dismissed Iran’s claim that the attack by United States Navy was a breach of the 1955 Treaty of Amity between the two countries.[4]
This battle was the largest of the five major U.S. surface engagements since the Second World War, which also include the Battle of Chumonchin Chan during the Korean War, the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the Battle of Dong Hoi during the Vietnam War, and the Action in the Gulf of Sidra in 1986. It also marked the U.S. Navy’s first exchange of anti-ship missiles by opposing ships.
The propaganda PR alone from this will embolden our enemies.
You point your weapons back and say "go ahead if you dare"
Terrible and unexpected thing for a young kid to face on what should have been a normal transit
But that is why the government made you a naval officer
The only thing that absolves this Lieutenant is a direct order from his chain of command to surrender his vessels
"Don't fire first" does not equal "allow them to board your vessels". An attempt to board (along with a demand for surrender) is an inherently hostile act. No ROE precludes the right of self defense. No JAG lawyer can touch you in the face of a direct hostile act.
Even if it was the exact Mexican standoff that you describe the Lieutenant had the obligation to resist. Point your guns back and wait for them to fire. Then resist as best you can for as long as you can.
And yes, I have served in combat and I know what I'm saying. They were in a tough spot, probably an unwinnable one, it doesn't matter.
If it was the LT's call they should have resisted
I think Flavious Maximus is correct.
I value your stuff. Keep going!
‘Pod
Amen Travis, and thanks. You are educating a lot of people on these particulars. I know I am learning more details than I knew before.
I think what you said in this post is the most likely scenario.
And, with this admin, I would not be surprised if they had inside intel about their route and their timing. I do not trust ANYTHING this administration spouts. They are treacherous, traitorous, liars.
The Iranians accomplished several things with their bushwhack:
1) The spat in the eye of the US Navy for propaganda purposes.
2) They were able to appear “magnanimous” by giving our people back with a small apology.
3) They ensured, amongst liberal, establishment types the they payment of their billions.
IMHO, for them, that is what this was all about.
For the treacherous, lying pols here in this admin, they:
1) Want to show how their diplomacy pays off.
2) Want to ensure that their Iranian Deal goes down while appearing to have helped change the Iranians.
3) Use this as propaganda for the upcoming election.
Problem is...it’s all a lie.
Second problem is, even if their story was true...which it is not...it would still be illegal and an act of war by Iran.
Taking any foreign warship on the high seas is illegal and an act of war.
Those vessels have an international right to innocent passage, and they have that right even if they accidentally and innocently stray into the territorial waters of another nation.
Anyhow, thanks for your stand on this and your comments which are getting air time all over.
Some are not portraying it correctly...as you are pointing out...but others are. I heard your one quote (unattributed) on Glenn Beck and on Savage on Friday. At least from what I heard, they were depicting it as they should... as something very, very wrong having happened and the US Admin and the Iranians being complicit in it.
Spot-on, Jeff. Those points are perfect, as I see the situation.
What a lesson for Iran: America’s ROE are “surrender before firing.”
A far cry from Reagan’s “Operation Praying Mantis.”
That’s true, but the LT must follow orders.
I believe his orders made it impossible for him to fire before it was a Mexican Standoff heavily tilting to the Iranians, at point blank.
Damned either way. The disgrace is on the creators of the “surrender before firing” ROE.
“Re-integration” = “Re-education.”
NDAs to infinity, with maximum threats, against callow kids.
Thanks. I will.
Thanks for the post. McGee is saying how I understood the initial reports to be, and that made sense. I also think they were intercepted in international waters rather than “lost/mechanical problems” by the Revolutionary Guard who wanted an incident on the day that bh0 was to give the state of the union address.
I’m also in agreement with this from Lifson’s article, or whomever he copied it from: “”statement of “confession,” probably because that was exactly the statement he was supposed to make according to one of those SOPs at Fifth Fleet that had been set up for the alternative scenarios.””
Why, because that is the type of orders that would be ordered to be given under this administrations ‘give the Iranians everything they want, so the don’t back out of the nuke deal’ policy.
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