Posted on 02/27/2016 9:18:47 AM PST by Olog-hai
Get the U.S. out of the U.N. and the U.N. out of the U.S.
No, garbage is getting tiring. Too many people were compared to Hitler to takes this seriously anymore. Slobo, Saddam, Gaddafi, Putin, Trump, Assad.. the list is going on.
Perhaps it is time to realize that it is those who do these bizarre comparisons -- the golfer, Momma Merkel, and Bushista gang -- are quite deserving to be considered as a danger on the level of the original Nazis, if not worse.
Those who call facts “garbage”, with all due respect, “are quite deserving to be considered as a danger on the level of the original Nazis, if not worse”, frankly. Never mind dangerous facts. They are not direct Godwinian comparisons; Adolf had his own notions of his particular branch of socialism, but what is a commonality here with the Arabic/Islamic form is the antisemitism, anti-Americanism and imperialism.
What is so hard to understand about Arab nationalism + Arab socialism = Arab national-socialism? The Ba’athists, never mind many other Islamofascists, take these appellations unto themselves; even Nasser called himself nationalist and socialist, never mind pan-Arabist. Not garbage; fact. I don’t appreciate any implications that I’m lying merely by repeating what they themselves say.
it is hard to understand why someone takes these empty words seriously anymore. Let me decipher for you a bit:
Nationalism: not necessarily a bad term, nationalists played fundamental role in most countries. In today's Europe nationalists (think Hungary) may save their countries from the abyss brought in by internationalists (think Sweden, Germany)
Socialism: large elements of socialism are present in nearly every regime today. Including the US and the EU.
Arab: Assad's regime is Arab, because the population is Arab.
Mr. Assad managed to build a pluralistic state which was supported by very different segments of the population: his Alawites, Christians, Shia, Kurds, even many Arab Sunnis.
national-socialism: yes, the cheapest trick, combine two words with a hyphen. Let me play this game too... the danger I see is not from Mr. Assad but from the democratic-republican single party rule. Enough, hopefully?
Compared to the other factions in his country, he’s a genuine humanitarian. :)
Isn’t Israel a socialist democracy led by a strong nationalist?
Perhaps you should choose your labels more carefully...
No.
You do know what site this is, right?
I can appreciate the spirit of that statement.
"...Those who do not want to recognize a German socialism do not have the right to call themselves national. Only he who emphasizes German socialism is truly national. He who refuses to speak of socialism, who believes in socialism only in the Marxist sense, or to whom the word 'socialism' has an unpleasant ring, has not understood the deepest meaning of nationalism. ...If by "democratic-republican rule" you are referring to our sorry domestic state, I certainly do not deny that fact. These are the enablers of foreign enemies, take note, while the identity of these foreign enemies does not change.
"Marxist socialism was degraded to a concern only with pay or the stomach. The bourgeoisie degraded nationalism into barren hyper-patriotism. Both concepts, therefore, must be cleansed and shown to the people anew, in a crystal-clear form. The nationalism of our worldview arrived at the right moment. Our movement seized the concept of socialism from the cowardly Marxists, and tore the concept of nationalism from the cowardly bourgeois parties, throwing both into the melting pot of our worldview, and producing a clear synthesis: German National Socialism. That provided the foundation for the rebuilding of our people. Thus this revolution was National Socialist." ...
Lol....are you in charge now?
Just because I ask the question doesn’t mean I’m in charge. I’ve had that question asked to me. I do perceive this site to be pro-Israel, which is one of the factors that brought me here.
Because these two terms are very common and so is the combination. For example, Israel -- the original prevailing ideology was nationalist (Zionism) and socialist (incidentally, this is the reason why Stalin supported creation of Israel).
Do you consider Israel to be an enemy to be destroyed too? If you do, I understand your position, if you don't , you are not being fair :P
You either grant every country the right to be nationalistic (helpful as long as this does not go too far) and experiments with socialism if they want to (usually harmful but not any of our business).
Your other error is in misunderstanding the term "socialism" as it is used in Baathism. Per Wikipedia:
Socialism in Ba'athist ideology does not mean state socialism or economic equality, but modernisation; Ba'athists believe that socialism is the only way to develop an Arab society which is truly free and united.
So, do not let yourself jump into false analogies with NSDAP, this is more about rejection of feodal past still present in many Arab countries (cf. Saudi Royals). I do not have a problem with this, and do not see why you should.
If by "democratic-republican rule" you are referring to our sorry domestic state, I certainly do not deny that fact. These are the enablers of foreign enemies, take note, while the identity of these foreign enemies does not change.
Oh, but it does change. Al Queda and ISIS are new enemies, obviously dangerous, and not merely enabled but created by our sorry rulers. But what makes Syria an enemy? Did I miss something?
OK; I see where you’re coming from now, calling Zionism “nationalist (and) socialist” especially when Israel is neither. This isn’t Stormfront, in case you didn’t notice.
Read on the terms as applied to Israel. Israeli Labor Party was wholly socialist and the ruling party for the first couple of decades. That Zionism is a national ideology is rather explicit. I will reemphasize again that nationalism is the usual way to build and maintain national states, nothing wrong with it.
Just one quote for you (there are hundreds):
Zionism is the modern expression of the ancient Jewish heritage. Zionism is the national liberation movement(YIGAL ALLON, UN Speech 1975)
As for Stormfront .. grow up!
I called nobody any names whatsoever.
I also did not say anything about nationalism being malignant in and of itself; the USA is itself formed on the basis of nationalism. Only when expressly combined with socialism as a governmental ideology, which entails a dictatorship sans republicanism and with a toy parliament as an appendage (usually); but then it is merely a form of totalitarian socialism after that.
So why the mischaracterization of my words?
Looks like the great divisions have made their way into the UN once again.....the world has become one huge field of unyielding divisions. Setting the stage perhaps for “the man” who will have all the answers.......people are ripe for it.
How do you account for the fact that the United Nations Charter follows the format of the Russian (USSR) Constitution of 1936 rather than the format of the (Covenant of the) League of Nations? Would you feel there was any significance in the fact that the general secretary for the organization which drew up the charter was Alger Hiss? …The UN was the soil in which such seeds were to be laid in the first place, never mind cultivated.
— The Naked Communist, Chapter 8
Unfortunately, not so simple. Elements of socialism are present in nearly every government ideology today. EU is outright socialist. Some programs of the US government are quite socialist (Obamacare as one example).
So it is just not possible to condemn the nationalism/socialism combination without condemning nationalism in general!
Yet worse, nationalism can be quite ugly without any detectable traces of socialism. Examples are plenty.
Just because NSDAP called itself both nationalist and socialist has very little significance, names of political parties are rarely meaningful. The two use parties have identical names (simply one prefers Greek and the other Latin) and neither stand for democracy aka republic, but rather for oligarchy!
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