Posted on 08/19/2016 10:08:48 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
Ego? Bullfeathers.
Public schools are similar to the USPS; they have to take your package no matter how poorly wrapped. Private (and to a lesser extent Charter) schools can (and do) require well packaged items, in the same way as UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc.
I have a good friend who teaches 4th & 5th grades in M.P.S. Many are very poorly wrapped. He is virtually powerless to effectively deal with disruptive students.
One of which is: exposing their precious snowflakes to the valuable experience of natural and logical consequences.
This leads to a phenomenon called "maturity".
Good for them.
Yes I have and I am aware of the rules, but also aware of their use of cell phones. How does Mom know they forgot anything, that is absolutely all I was pointing out. I have no skin in the game just pointing that out is all.
This is a high school. That means that they could be exposing 14 year olds to adult responsibilities since this is their reasoning. But when did the instructors of a topic like math and history become experts on the rearing of other people’s children? One of my responsibilities as a parent is my efforts for the safety of my children. When schools start to overstep that need, they are, in some cases, also countermanding the wishes of the parent. If a parent notices an error was made, anything at all, and is refused access to their child, the school is bordering on the edge of kidnapping. And it doesn’t matter why, or who is responsible, I will see my child or I will be calling law enforcement and we’ll see just how good their sign is. The school is not the parent. They are paid to teach them the skills to make their living financially in the outside world. My job as a parent is to teach them the skills to survive with the skills they are taught and how to be a good representation of society. They teach them what makes a car go. I teach them not to step in front of one.
red
I think you are giving the school nurse too much leeway. Unless it is life threatening, all they can do call trhe parents anyway. Parents come down, take sick kid home, problem solved. But by establishing a no entry status to parents when simple actions could prevent it, then they are just passing the buck from the administrators, to the school nurse who’s hands are tied. Typical.
red
How come solving a problem is not considered problem solving?
That’s right, ego.
You are welcome.
And that’s my point. The school is saying stay off campus, we’ll punish the little creature for you, whether it’s his fault or yours. They are closing the lanes of communication to the parents with a catch-sign saying you have no say in this.
Now you might say it could be just medication. I know of a school in Spokane where my sister teaches that a child, off medication, beat a teacher up, putting her int he hospital, and talking away her ability to teach for most of a year. How good is the sign then?
red
Then why have the sign?
red
That was my thought as well. I’m all for training up boys. I’ve done it. But I’ll be darned if I’d let my diabetic or asthmatic child suffer or wind up in the hospital or worse because I was trying to instill character in him.
Because sometimes expectations aren’t clear to all parents unless they are reminded of them.
A parent who truly disagrees with a sign like this is likely to ignore it - and I think that’s fair enough if they really do disagree with it. But far more often, it’s simply a matter of acting without thinking too much about it. Explaining the thinking behind a rule (or a guideline or whatever it is you want to call it) is something schools should do whenever they can.
“A parent who truly disagrees with a sign like this is likely to ignore it”
And this is when the fun begins. Having a parent come on school grounds, even to a high school, is like opening up the gates of hell if it is determined that the parent ignored the rule in defiance. They can, and have, called the cops, have the unwelcome parent captured, and arrested.
Branch Elementary School A Texas elementary school regularly threatens criminal charges to parents who enter the property to drop off or pick up their children. And the school systems in different parts of the country practice their “bad person on campus” at different times and it is almost always a deranged father.
And all they are really sup[posed to do is teach reading, writing, and arithmetic. But they have to get into life skills, not their area of expertise, and force it down the parents and kids throats. And use the law to do it. Stay with what you know. Leave the education of my kids morals and responsibilities to me.
red
This sign is, to me, clearly a pretty polite request. It is phrased as such.
It’s not the same type of situation as you are describing where some sort of legal force is being used to block access to a campus. That’s something quite different.
What some school in Texas is doing has little to do with what this school is doing.
I don’t believe parents should be barred from school campuses in general terms. But that isn’t what is happening in this particular case and acting as if the situations are equivalent or treating them as equivalent makes very little sense. You seem to be complaining about something entirely different than what is actually happening in the article that started this discussion - and while your complaints might very well be valid in some contexts, it doesn’t mean they are in others.
Though I get what the school is trying to do, it doesn’t quite sit well with me. My issue is, it doesn’t allow for grace — in this case, the grace that a parent, by bringing something in that their child forgot, is offering to a student who, being a child, hasn’t necessarily developed the adult mindset of being completely responsible for himself.
To allow for this, but guard against the inevitable some who would take unfair advantage, I would suggest some kind of sliding scale. In each school year, for each student, the first time a parent has to bring Junior’s lunch or homework is excused. Second time, the student receives some kind of “demerit” such as a lower grade on the assignment or extra chores in the classroom or whatever. Third time, the consequence is more severe still. And starting with the fourth time, that’s when the parent is told to turn around and go away.
You’re right about the answers I’m giving. I can only entertain questions as how they relate to the person asking.
The whole beginning of this thread was based upon a school taking upon themselves to teach something other than what they are being paid to do. Their idea of the need for punishment, when by the description, indicates themselves as being judge, jury, and executioner on a topic they may not have the evidence for, is typical the liberal thinking the school systems have adopted for over 50 years. And I get my information from observations, and first hand experience from my mother who was teaching during WWII on a war time credential at 18, through my sister who will be retiring this year and teaches primary education, now in high school.
The real problem here is schools have lied to reach a goal. Example: here in Washington state they school systems shut up about a state plan to stop the money being earmarked for breakfasts. But what the actual bill was was for a predominant larger amount of funds being supplied without the earmarks. So the schools were getting more funds, and they could spend them any way they want. But the libs claimed it was to stop the meals. Bill failed, schools lost out on getting more funds.
The bureaucracy of the schools systems, using pieces like the NEA and local government, are so trying to reshape the education system, they are destroying it. They re so busy trying to teach their “morals” that they are failing in the efforts to teach core topics. According to the US Department of education, in a study done in 2013, there are, roughly, 32 million people out there that can’t read. Fewer than a third of college degree recipients are “proficient” in everyday literacy, U.S. study finds, and the rate has been falling since 2005.
Why don’t they stay in the classroom and out of my home? If they are failing their job this much, I don’t want them taking on mine with almost no knowledge of what they do. And in comparison to mine, their morals suck!
So where does it stop? Or with the info I already gave you, where does it continue? Let me raise my own. They need to stay out of it. It’s not their responsibility and don’t threaten me trying to keep mine.
red
That's an assumption on your part and I think it's a flawed assumption possibly based on an idea that all schools should be like public schools and only have the same responsibilities that public schools have, and ignoring the fact that parents who choose private schools are doing so even though public schools exist and they could choose those if that's all they wanted for their kids.
I may have an advantage here that because I am a teacher and I am very interested in educational policy that I've looked into this story a bit over the last couple of weeks since I first saw it. I'm not basing my opinion on just what is in this article - I've seen other material. I'm not saying other people should have done that, nor criticising anybody for not doing so, but I've had the time and inclination so I have done it. This particular school, Catholic High School for Boys, is a high achieving school academically, with a particularly stated mission that parents who choose the school know about when they are choosing it. If this was a new policy, I think you'd have more of a point but it has been in place for years and parents choose the school knowing that the school is proactive in this regard. The parents are paying the school to do this. They are not paying for a bog standard education in the three Rs that they could get (or in some cases, unfortunately not get) at a local public school.
Their idea of the need for punishment, when by the description, indicates themselves as being judge, jury, and executioner on a topic they may not have the evidence for, is typical the liberal thinking the school systems have adopted for over 50 years.
Good Lord, no. It's exactly the opposite. This is an affirmation of conservative principles of education, not the neo-liberal ideology that pervades public schooling. The school's mission statement sums it up:
"Catholic High School is a college-preparatory high school in Little Rock, Arkansas, founded in 1930 that strives to challenge boys academically while also teaching the truths of manhood – faith, integrity, and, as Father Tribou often stressed, duty."
I am, to be honest, confused by the position you are taking. You seem to object to the liberal and progressive ideology that pervades so much modern education, but you also seem to assume that the limitations of that ideology should be assumed to apply in all schools. This school has not embraced that ideology. It's maintained older ideals of education, and it's open about them. It tells parents about them - and parents who want that for their son choose to send their sons to this school even though it would be easier and cheaper to simply send them to the local public school. And they do so because they want more than the local public school provides and they want something different from that.
And I get my information from observations, and first hand experience from my mother who was teaching during WWII on a war time credential at 18, through my sister who will be retiring this year and teaches primary education, now in high school.
And that may well give you an insight into education in general but it doesn't mean it has relevance to this specific school or what they are doing.
I'm a teacher now - my second career after over two decades in the military. Now, I don't teach in a 'normal school' myself. I teach in what is regarded as one of the two best Catholic boys' schools in Australia (the other of the two is its brother school in another state). And we do things differently too from what is considered normal. Criticisms that could fairly be applied to the government run school system often have absolutely no validity in my school, because we do things differently. It's not that we are perfect and we can't completely avoid the impact of government policies even when we don't like them, but we do things our own way. I taught in the state system before I took my current role, and it was a very different situation.
So where does it stop? Or with the info I already gave you, where does it continue? Let me raise my own. They need to stay out of it. It’s not their responsibility and don’t threaten me trying to keep mine.
But the parents who have chosen to send their sons to this school have made their own decisions as to how their sons will be raised and they have chosen this school. And you seem to think you are in a position to tell them that their decision is wrong. I do support the right of people to raise their own children as they see fit - but that to me includes the right to choose the school that matches the type of education you want for your child, if you're lucky enough that it's available. And that is what parents who are choosing this school are doing. The school doesn't hide what it's doing - and it's been run this way for decades now. Parents know what they are choosing.
I agree with you about a lot of the problems that infest public schooling policy, practice, and philosophy - but if we let those problems effect how private schools operate, we're just making things worse, not better. A school that doesn't have a liberal ideology at its core shouldn't be prevented from doing what it does, because other schools do.
‘The whole beginning of this thread was based upon a school taking upon themselves to teach something other than what they are being paid to do.
That’s an assumption on your part and I think it’s a flawed assumption possibly based on an idea that all schools should be like public schools and only have the same responsibilities that public schools have, and ignoring the fact that parents who choose private schools are doing so even though public schools exist and they could choose those if that’s all they wanted for their kids.”
This is not an assumption when the school systems throughout the US, are taking it upon themselves to do the work of parents. If a child, even at the high school level, which falls under the primary education level, has a repeated problem like the not taking items like lunches, or anything, it is not the position of the school to “punish” the child. It is the position of the school to inform the parents and allow them to correct the problem.
But the real problem is that In the United States, historically, the purpose of education has evolved according to the needs of society by their determination. Education’s primary purpose has ranged from instructing youth in religious doctrine, to preparing them to live in a democracy, to assimilating immigrants into mainstream society, to preparing workers for the industrialized 20th century workplace. And most of this should be left in the hands of the parents, not the schools. You’ll notice the word evolve. I attended schools in the US, was able to get m,y first degree, then got my second during, my military career,, and I have a credential for primary education. The evolution of the schools to teach more than give the tools to the student for secondary education is the main evolution. And as the schools changed, they also took more responsibility from the parents. It went from contacting parents for misbehavior to accepting the responsibility of delving out punishment, whether it applied or not. The child’s behavior is not their responsibility by law.It is the responsibility of the parents.
Parents are legally responsible for the behavior of their children Those who would hold parents responsible for their children’s actions might argue that values can and should be instilled. Colorado was the first state to enact parent-liability laws in 1903. Other states soon followed Colorado’s example. However, it was unusual to enforce the laws until the rise of juvenile crime in the late 80’s. Silverton, Oregon has become a model for communities that are interested in parental accountability. In Silverton, Oregon if a child is found carrying a gun, smoking cigarettes, or using illegal drugs the parents can be fined up to $1,000.
While many States have embraced the idea of holding parents responsible for the actions of their children — at least 36 States have mandated some type of responsibility provision beyond civil liability for parents or guardians of delinquent children — others are critical of the idea, fearing legal challenges and citing a dearth of empirical evidence supporting the efficacy of parental responsibility initiatives. And in all the reading, and all the talking with my family of teachers, and my studies, not one time did I find any legislation, or any decision that the school was responsible for the behavior problem of a student. So when it comes down to it, if the student sets a pattern that does not reach the goals of the school, what can they really do. And the more they do it, the more the student will rebel. And that’s been proven in our criminal justice system. And a school passing out punishment that really means nothing to the student in the long run, and does nothing but challenge the student to misbehave to fight back, and the parents, who I just indicated in 36 states are held responsible for behavior, are left out, the school becomes the villain and not the educator.
And parents being responsible for the behavior of their children should be held accountable. Just because the schools want to step in, which they didn’t prior to this “evolution” only furthers the problem. I, as a responsible parent, I raised two, would not have had my kids enter this system for the reasons I mentioned, overstepping their positions, trying to relieve the parents of theirs, and moving away from teaching the kids what they need in tools to compete in the outside world. I will make my own into adults with my morals and standards based upon what I and the law think is in their best interest. You want to be a parent, have your own. Don’t try to kidnap mine and raise them under your ideals. That’s my job.
Oh, my kids? One is married, fosters kids, and is a computer manager and trainer for a west coast warehousing company. My other is an electrical engineer working all over the states as a trouble shooter on communication stations. He is getting married shortly. Did the school teach my kids responsibility or the desire to improve themselves? Not one bit! So it can be done my way without the school stepping into the mix. You do your job, I’ll do mine.
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