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To: kearnyirish2

I’ve read the interesting theory that blacks in the South picked up the rather unproductive Scots-Irish culture in the rural South that still holds Appalachia back, from high illegitimacy rates and high marriage breakup rates to low valuation of higher education.
Then blacks moved throughout the US after World War 2, taking that “red-neck” culture with them while moving into urban areas where it is even less successful than in rural areas where self-reliance through family networks is beneficial when the state is weak - and switching to reliance on the welfare with an already weak valuation of marriage so they quickly descended into entrenched intergenerational welfare and the chaos the lack of married fathers creates.


20 posted on 10/13/2016 12:55:56 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: tbw2

One big hole in that theory is that Appalachia probably had fewer blacks than the northeast (even back then); slavery had no role for mountaineers. In fact, West Virginia was created during the Civil War by people in the mountainous west of the state with no interest in preserving slavery at all; they would support the Union, but feared being left at the mercy of the Richmond government when it was all over. The North acted accordingly, separating them from the slavery-supporting east of the state.

I’m Irish but not Scots-Irish (who are historically Protestant and enemies of my people), so I have no reason to defend them, but I do believe the people you describe as “unproductive” probably contributed more to founding/settling this country in its early days than just about any other group. Appalachia’s challenges, like many urban areas’, lie in a changing economy that simply needs less coal miners (just as cities need less factory workers); they’ve both definitely fallen on hard times for the past decades.

FWIW, I believe Appalachia has produced more Medal of Honor recipients than any other part of the country; certainly not a trait shared by the descendants of slaves (or Irish people, for that matter).


21 posted on 10/13/2016 1:27:43 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: tbw2

Maybe but unproductive behavior is prevalent in many other cultures. I have been reading a book the growth of entrepreneurship, finance and capitalism (i.e. productive behavior!) around the world. Some cultures are about product behavior, some less so, some not at all at least in above the minimum to survive. Geographical northern regions have more. In northern climates staying alive is harder to do, so with severe winters you have to plan, defer gratification & produce! Southern climates less so, food, clothing shelter issues less severe so solutions to these problems need not be as immediate or efficient. Other factors:

1) Weaker central governments in the west & northern latitudes, property rights to a greater deal respected & individual freedom of action allowed to a greater degree.

2) Tribal oriented society (Order of loyalty & deference family, clan, tribe, maybe nation) much weaker in the north and west, where it’s stronger productive behavior is weaker, examples Scotland, & Ireland.

We think of Asians as being very productive & entrepreneurial and many such as the Chinese and Japanese are. Historically it was much harder for them to be, historically they were under governments that were weaker on property rights, and more arbitrary in its action & Confucianism made them look on government as something paternal. So they still had productive societies, productive to a certain level due to the fact they were laboring under huge inefficiencies. Remove those constraints & they take off. One of the PRC officials asked the very “un-Maoist” question, “Where are there poor Chinese? Answer in China!”. So he (Deng I think was his name!)was the one that started moving China away from Communism to authoritarian capitalism. It did make the average Chinese a little freer and better off, but they have a long way to go.

My 2 cents


33 posted on 10/15/2016 7:00:04 AM PDT by Reily
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