Posted on 01/04/2017 1:31:00 PM PST by NYer
Many couples adopt and then raising a family find out they are pregnant with their own child. I’ve heard it said that this happens a lot.
You have stated exactly why in vitro is not approved by the Catholic Church.
Absolutely! We text all the time. We are all pretty close and accepting of differences and the kids all know as much as they can understand. Three families so far and it is wonderful, like having far away cousins who are actual bio sibs. Their sisters and brothers are the ones with the same parents, in the same family, but they share genes with these other kids. It’s very nice.
Note this isn't just posted to you but to "all" as well.
Is it tolerable to leave even one viable embryo in the frozen wasteland of a liquid nitrogen freezer, potentially indefinitely?
What about just letting one viable out of 99 unviable die in a Petri dish?
Someone said upthread its best to tread lightly on this subject and it's easy to avoid hard questions as above if we talk in mere statistical concepts.
This isn't a value judgment about anyone's baby who was the product of IVF. Someone claimed, by implication, the Church's position was that IVF babies are somehow less "valid" than babies conceived naturally. This is not the case, just as babies conceived in rape are no less "valid" than any other. It's not about the worth of the baby who survives the procedure. At all. Such a child is just as "valid" as any other. It's about the way s/he was conceived.
Before I say or ask anything more that may offend, I will only ask one final question: how can anyone believe just one life is expendable, for any reason? Or more precisely, how can anyone believe it is within our preview to create and subsequently destroy, even just one, human life?
Congratulations. We’ve been blessed!
Yes, but that was also the culture at the time.
Your children by your servants were yours.
Although, in this case the result was Islam.....not what I call a blessing.
Oh, I don’t think anyone misunderstands you.
I agree. In some cases open adoption is not necessarily a good thing, but records should not be sealed. There needs to be a thread of contact maintained so that it could be traced later. Kids will become adults and adults have a right to know their heritage. I have a couple of friends who have traced their birth parents and one has established a warm relationship with her mother as well as with biological siblings.
Thanks for clarifying what so many people misunderstand.
Quite often, fertilized embryos fail to implant, even in a healthy womb, and even without IVF. Nobody is killing them. They are simply not viable.
No matter how much people wish to spin it, IVF results in the destruction of embryos. Multiple embryos are implanted into the uterus to maximize the chances of at least one embryo attaching to the uterine wall leading to a successful pregnancy. I know many women who have had IVF and the doctor has to destroy an embryo or two because the pregnancy would result in three or four babies. I am not judging couples who are desperate to have their own children, but IVF amounts to humans playing God and creating life where life would not exist on its own. Sometimes, as painful and sad as it is, a woman just cannot conceive on her own.
Bingo. Otherwise women would be pregnant after each act like cats.
well said.
Just how many IVF embryos do you suppose survive to be born? They are killed when they're "reduced" after implantations. They are killed when they degrade after something goes wrong with the cryogenic mechanism, or are quietly discarded after years of cold storage. Surely the lives to which they're entitled in justice are taken from them as they linger for years or even decades in suspended animation while everyone to whom they have a right to be related by nature ages, dies, or simply loses interest. IVF is cruel, unnatural, and degrading. As a form of child abuse, it is unsurpassed.
1.7 million human embryos created for IVF thrown away
Fertility clinics destroy embryos all the time. Why aren’t conservatives after them?
There is also a desperation in people who have been diagnosed with a terminal disease and who seek a bone marrow or kidney donor. Sometimes the outcome for humans is that they will die sooner than they would like or that they cannot conceive. I do not like it, and it is painful, but it is the harsh reality of life—a life that is given to us by God. The cavalier attitude of human life as disposable or as convenient leads to that slippery slope called the culture of death. Euthanasia, physician-assisted suicide, IVF, cloning, embryonic stem cell research, the use of aborted fetuses in research, the shopping around for ‘genetically preferred’ eggs or sperm, etc. The common denominator in these things is that humans play God.
As for a priest refusing to baptize a child...the priest and the Catholic Church do not punish a baby for the actions of its parent or parents e.g., a baby conceived during a rape would most certainly be baptized in a church. I do not dispute or doubt the love of parents who have children born with the help of IVF, and I do not think that anyone here doubts that either.
Yes, it is true that embryos can be destroyed that are not being transferred to a womb. It could also happen because of creating “designer babies”. And then there is the issue of selectively aborting if there are more than the desired number of fetuses.
Of course, any medical procedure can be abused. IVF doesn’t have to be unless the people involved lack morals and conscience.
There are options of avoiding both of those situations. It is the parents’ decision to destroy the embryos or abort the babies. Both of those practices can (and should) be avoided. Some clinics have policies against placing too many embryos in a woman at one time and also regarding how the leftover embryos, usually frozen, are protected.
In the case of leftover frozen embryos that remain for years, that is also the parents’ decision. They can choose to attempt pregnancies with the number of embryos that were conceived or adopt them out. Odds are that most will not become pregnancies anyway.
My point is that IVF, itself, is not intended to be destructive and embryos are not destroyed just because of the process.
I can see that you are emotionally invested in this and I understand most of your objections. I, too, feel that it is wrong to encourage the miracle of conception and then flippantly toss it away. Babies are precious in any stage of life. But I understand the complexities of the situation and I think, within reason, that there is a way to use this technology for good.
You don’t agree. That’s fine. We’ll agree to disagree, but I don’t want to argue about it.
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