Posted on 12/06/2017 1:14:21 PM PST by ColdOne
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that all except two of these "accusations" are consensual dating situations (kissing, I believe) and the only thing that is "unusual" is his age (32?) and the ages of the young women (17-19). Somehow these have become part and parcel of the aura surrounding "harassment charges". From what I remember of the articles that I read, most .. if not all .. of these young women were on dates with him that had been okayed by their parents.
So, again, my understanding is that there are only two alleged incidents that might rise to the level of harassment, and these are the two incidents that have been pretty much found as non-credible: the one with the alleged 14-year old and the one who was allegedly molested outside of a restaurant where she was purportedly employed, and this is the one with the discredited yearbook entries.
Both of those two tell stories that are wildly inconsistent within the facts that they are alleging, as well as disproven by other facts surrounding the incidents and political bias.
So I don't see any argument can be made for the number of the alleged claims. As I said in the first paragraph, most of them don't fall under any sort of sexual or immoral incidents, merely dating circumstances.
Eight. Leigh Corfman, Wendy Miller, Debbie Wesson Gibson, Gloria Deason, Beverly Young Nelson, Tina Johnson, Gina Richardson, and Becky Gray.
The rest were just recounting dates with Moore, and were not accusations.
Corfman said Moore tried to date her when she was 14 and later molested her at his house. Moore steadfastly denies it.
Miller said Moore kept hitting on her when she was 14 and working at the mall. Moore says he never met her.
Gibson said she dated Moore when she was 17 with her mother's OK. Moore says he remembers her and her family but denies dating her.
Deason also said she dated Moore when she was 18, without her parent's knowledge, and he provided alcohol for her. Moore denied dating her.
Nelson is the one Allread paraded around. Moore denies knowing her and the "evidence" Nelson presented is, shall we say, highly suspect.
Johnson claims Moore groped her in his office. Moore denies it.
Richardson claims Moore hit her up at the mall and later called her at school to ask her out. Moore denies it.
Gray is the oldest of the group and complained that Moore was annoying her when she was working at the mall. She's the one who says her manager told her that Moore had been banned from the mall. Moore denies it.
A mixed bag. Lots of allegations from them. All denied by Moore. He said/she said all up and down the line. Many believe him, many believe the women, the Democrats will use it against Republican candidates in 2018 to appeal to those who believe the women.
If that's going to be the case, every Senator that's seated should start their term with a complete and thorough ethics investigation- going back to their college days.
Corfman said Moore tried to date her when she was 14 and later molested her at his house. Moore steadfastly denies it.
This is the first, and most serious, accusation.
Miller said Moore kept hitting on her when she was 14 and working at the mall. Moore says he never met her.
I don't recall this, but at face value... I'd say that 1) a 14 year old may not have the same understanding of what is "hitting on" as an older woman, and 2) remembering back 40 years to when one was 14 and what she thought as a 14-year-old is, to me, a stretch.
BTW, a 14-year-old working at the mall is curious. Labor laws say (today, at least), that a 14-year-old is limited to no more that 3 hours no later than 7:00pm on a school day. They may not cook food, but they can reheat food, stock shelves, and run cash registers.
In any case, it is not an accusation, as nothing illegal was suggested. Talking to a 14-year-old is not a crime.
Discarded.
Gibson said she dated Moore when she was 17 with her mother's OK. Moore says he remembers her and her family but denies dating her.
What is the accusation? All they did was date.
Discarded.
Deason also said she dated Moore when she was 18, without her parent's knowledge, and he provided alcohol for her. Moore denied dating her.
Providing alcohol is the only accusation. At the time, the legal drinking age was 19. This doesn't mitigate the responsibility to know her age first before offering a drink. Since she is no longer a minor, the charge is simply giving an adult a drink one year prior to the legal age.
Nelson is the one Allread paraded around. Moore denies knowing her and the "evidence" Nelson presented is, shall we say, highly suspect.
The accusation here is an attempt to force her to perform oral sex on him in his car. That attempt was described pushing her head towards his crotch. Was this attempted rape or simply attempting to initiate heavy petting that she rejected?
My gut reaction is to call this an attempt to initiate petting, perhaps misreading a dating cue, if it happened at all.
Discarded.
Johnson claims Moore groped her in his office. Moore denies it.
This is an accusation of inappropriate workplace behavior.
Richardson claims Moore hit her up at the mall and later called her at school to ask her out. Moore denies it.
Courtship, not an accusation.
Discarded.
Gray is the oldest of the group and complained that Moore was annoying her when she was working at the mall. She's the one who says her manager told her that Moore had been banned from the mall. Moore denies it.
Courtship, not an accusation.
Discarded.
My final score:
-PJ
It has been pointed out that in most of these cases there were no laws broken. But then again no laws were broken in Conyers’ case or in Franken’s. The issue has been whether the behavior was appropriate, and in some of the Moore cases than if allegations are true then it can certainly be said that his behavior wasn’t appropriate. But in all cases Moore has consistently denied any inappropriate acts on his part and he has gone so far as to deny ever dating or even knowing the women. So it’s back to he said/she said. Who is lying, the women or Moore? People believe one side or the other. The Democrats will try and use that in 2018.
Conyers was also accused of firing women who turned down his advances. If true, that would also be a violation of employment laws.
For Franken, one woman accused him of groping while he was a Senator. The problem for me is whether a "grope" was really an inadvertent touch or an actual grab for prurient satisfaction. In either case, it certainly does not rise to the level of misuse of taxpayer funds or employment violations.
-PJ
Diane Black is all over this.
If Conyers used tax funds to pay for sexual abuse, that bastard in gonna pay out of wallet. Its coming.
It's also a lie that Moore was banned from a mall for harassing teenage girls according to the former mall manager.
Moore dated teenage girls in this 30s. That's true and that's all there is on him. So what? It was 40 years ago.
Moore has been happily married for more than 30 years.
Republicans should be pushing to expel anyone that has paid off on a sexual harassment suit.
Democrats turned a blind eye for eight long years to worst sexual predator -- Bill Clinton. So, any Dem around during the Clinton years or that won't agree to expel members that paid off on sexual harassment claims has no credibility in attacking Moore.
There doesn't appear to be.
Conyers was also accused of firing women who turned down his advances. If true, that would also be a violation of employment laws.
Civil infractions, not criminal ones.
For Franken, one woman accused him of groping while he was a Senator. The problem for me is whether a "grope" was really an inadvertent touch or an actual grab for prurient satisfaction. In either case, it certainly does not rise to the level of misuse of taxpayer funds or employment violations.
Inappropriate behavior is inappropriate behavior. If you cannot treat co-workers and subordinates with respect then maybe you're not worthy of the public trust.
There doesn't appear to be.
Conyers was also accused of firing women who turned down his advances. If true, that would also be a violation of employment laws.
Civil infractions, not criminal ones.
For Franken, one woman accused him of groping while he was a Senator. The problem for me is whether a "grope" was really an inadvertent touch or an actual grab for prurient satisfaction. In either case, it certainly does not rise to the level of misuse of taxpayer funds or employment violations.
Inappropriate behavior is inappropriate behavior. If you cannot treat co-workers and subordinates with respect then maybe you're not worthy of the public trust.
Then why aren't they pushing to expel Blake Farenthold?
Of course it's ridiculous, especially considering the character of the inquisitors - but this obviously is not about, can't be about, Roy Moore.
This is the tip of an iceberg. What lies beneath, and why Moore threatens it, is the story.
-PJ
If CNN is reporting that 32 Democrat Senators are calling for Al Franken to resign, why doesn't Mitch McConnell call for an expulsion vote now, since they are on record saying they have the required two-thirds to make it happen?
Why wait for "the coming weeks" for Franken to take his time about it? Why not check to see if these Democrats have the resolve to follow through on their words with an expulsion vote now?
-PJ
What has the GOP House leadership had to say? Near as I can tell, nothing.
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