Posted on 03/29/2019 12:32:31 PM PDT by Drew68
if Trump really wana make heads explode. he should have Don become his vis president...the amount of venom that would come out of the left would alienate most normal voters and set Don up to run after his father leaves office...
Too bad Civics is no longer required.
Ok, now I see.
His speech at the 2008 convention was out of this world. He’s a rock star, this one.
I’m with you. I like Eric better.
Good and Gooder. :-)
Just before Pence goes out in public, the Secret Service puts a mirror under his nose to see if he’s breathing. Pence is the epitome of an empty suit politician.
Where is his official residency?
He can’t get elected for ANYTHING in New York City or Washington D.C.
Well, what do you consider to be a birthtard?
Most of us understand that a “birther” is someone who is quoting the Constitutional requirement to be president to be a natural born citizen, which was defined precisely by the Naturalization Act of 1790 as a person born of citizen parents.
Why does that offend you? Trump brought that up about Obama at one time. Do you consider Trump a birthtard? Do you consider our Founders birthrard, since they wrote it into the Constitution?
Give us a try! Run for NYS gov... would love to see a real election
He’s a fighter like his dad.
Someone should ask President Trump if he believes Don Jr. is ineligible to be President.
I suspect birthtards will be very disappointed with his answer.
Do you consider our Founders birthtard, since they wrote it into the Constitution?
Not the made-up Vattel stuff that birthtards like to parrot about parental citizenship.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mar-a-Lago is the address on his driver license.
If it isn't, perhaps it should be.
You could say the same about his father, the Donald.
Better to be paying taxes on Florida terms than NYC for sure
True, the US is not bound by any Czech law not agreed to by a ratified treaty from the US Senate. That does not negate their laws, if they have the ability to enforce it, any more than THEIR law negates ours, if the US has the jurisdiction and ability to enforce it.
My reply to you is long, but I hope that you will bear with it, as I think that so much misinformation abounds on this vital constitutional protection for the office of POTUS.
The constitution only says that a person must be a “natural born citizen” to be POTUS. It does not define what that status is. it also does not define “high crimes and misdemeanors” either, but that has not stopped us from impeaching federal officials. Recourse must be had to common law decisions of the SCOTUS and lower courts, as well as constitutional amendments. There is plenty of stare decisis jurisprudence to determine what the courts have defined as a “natural born citizen.”
Wong Kim Ark was the subject of an 1898 SCOTUS ruling involving citizenship. The court held that Wong Kim Ark was a CITIZEN (not a natural born one) by virtue of the 14th amendment, noting that his Chinese citizen parents were lawfully resident within the US at the time of his birth, and completely self supporting.
The 14th amendment was ratified in 1868. It did not exist at the time that Article II was ratified in 1787. The 14th amendment does NOT refer to, or alter the meaning of Article II in ANY way, whatever one thinks that the framers meant it to accomplish.
The SCOTUS has never directly ruled on the meaning of Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the constitution with regard to POTUS eligibility. But in SCOTUS cases wherein they have given a definition of what a NBC (or a 14th amendment citizen in the case of Wong Kim Ark)is, Minor vs Haperstatt, Venus Merchantman Case of 1814) they defined an NBC as a person born of TWO, count them TWO citizen parents (the parents don’t have to be NBC) and born in one of the states of the Union, or the territories.
The authors of the 14th amendment, in the Congressional debates on the matter, also defined an NBC in the same manner. Rep. Bimgham and Senator Jacob Howard were the principal authors of the 14th amendment. Here is a quote from Howard which clearly spelled out the intent of the 14th Amendment in 1866, which was to define citizenship. He stated: “Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.”
Until this matter is formally adjudicated by the Court, I will defer to their NBC stare decisis definitions. Trump Jr., Kamala Harris, Obama and a host of others were not, are not, and can NEVER be constitutionally eligible to be POTUS.
Whatever one thinks what the meaning of Article II, Section 1, clause 5 is, it is clear that the adoption of the 14th amendment did not alter it in any constitutional sense. How else can you account for the fact that the constitution only specifies for the office of senator and representative citizenship for a period of 9 and 7 years respectively, while the constitution requires the POTUS, to be NATURALLY born, owing allegiance to no other country? That is the ONLY constitutional provision for NBC. Obviously, there is a singular distinction with regard to that office. Under Jamaican and Indian citizenship law, for instance, It is conceivable that Jamaica or India could claim that Kamala Harris, thru her parents, is a citizen who owes allegiance to both of those countries FROM HER BIRTH. It was conferred upon her by those countries citizenship laws, just as valid as our own.
By the way, Ted Cruz (who I admire very much) made a very public demonstration of the fact that he was going to FORMALLY renounce his CANADIAN citizenship. What NATURALLY BORN US citizen has to do such a thing?
The framers of the constitution were patriarchs. (Yes I understand that is completely out of tune with modern sensibilities, but nonetheless it is true.) They believed that the citizenship of the FATHER was conferred upon his children. SCOUTUS incorporated in toto the ENTIRE 212th paragraph of Emerich De Vattel’s Law of Nations in their 1814 Venus merchantman case as they defined what an NBC is. Here is the money quote that Justice Livingstone that was cited when he wrote for the majority, “The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.”
I suspect the reason that many do not want this issue formally examined is that they wish to foster and enhance the globalist influence on the office of POTUS. The NBC requirement was never intended to be a guarantee of allegiance, but a safeguard against undue foreign influence on the office of POTUS, PARTICULARLY from a father owing allegiance to a foreign sovereignty. The oath of naturalization requires a formal and legal renunciation of any prior national allegiances.
Jennie Spencer-Churchill, known as Lady Randolph Churchill, was a natural born US citizen, and a British socialite, the wife of Lord Randolph Churchill and the mother of British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill.
Under US citizenship law at the time of Churchill’s birth, despite the fact that his mother was a NATURAL BORN US citizen, she could not transmit her US citizenship on to young Winston owing to her marriage to a foreign national, Sir Randolph Spencer Churchill, who was Winston’s father. That would not be legally allowed until the passage of the Cable Act of 1922, well after Churchill’s birth in 1874. The Cable Act only confers citizenship, NOT NATURALLY BORN citizenship. It did not refer to, or alter the meaning of an Article II, Sec. 1, clause 5 “natural born citizen” in any way.
Churchill was granted HONORARY US citizenship by an act of Congress on 9 April 1963. It was understood that his birth to a an NBC citizen US mother in Great Britain did not make him a citizen by law.
This is just one more indication of the fact that Trump Jr., Obama, Cruz, Rubio OR Harris can NEVER be constitutionally eligible to the office of POTUS. We need to have this issue finally adjudicated by SCOTUS for the first time in US history, and finally get a definitive answer one way or another.
We have enough naturally born anti-american, anti-constitutional cultural marxists in our country now who aspire to be POTUS. I say let’s eliminate all those who don’t even meet the basic Article II criteria. Winnow the opposition.
It is revealing to note what Clarence Thomas told a House subcommittee that when it comes to determining whether a person born outside the 50 states can serve as U.S. president when he said that the high court is “evading” the issue. The comments came as part of Thomas’ testimony before a House appropriations panel discussing an increase in the Supreme Court’s budget in April of 2017. Thomas said that to Subcommittee Chairman Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y.
After two Obama terms, I think they are terrified of the implications of a ruling based on originalist constitutional intent and interpretation. That does not excuse the cowardice in refusing a grant of certiorari for those who wish to have SCOTUS exercise it’s Article III oversight on this matter.
I refer you to Clay Blair’s excellent study of the Korean War, “The Forgotten War”, page 146. I quote LTC Mike Michaelis, who had just been given command of the US Army’s 27th Wolfhound Regiment, and was ordered to immediately deploy from Japan to Korea in July of 1950. “We’d just had our first child-a daughter. The only thing I had time to do was rush to the American Consulate with my wife and get our daughter certified so that SHE WOULDN’T BE A JAPANESE CITIZEN. I put twenty-five dollars, a razor, and tooth brush in my pocket and took off.” His daughter was born in the US Army hospital on Honshu.
Japan had regained it’s sovereignty at that time, and it’s citizenship laws were in effect. Japanese citizenship law held that ANYONE born on Japanese soil was a Japanese citizen. However, the US and Japan had concluded Status of Forces Agreements concerning the children born to US military personnel on Japanese soil. US military bases were LEASED from the Japanese government to the US for use as bases. They were still considered to be Japanese soil. If they were US soil, then the child of a pregnant Japanese worker delivering on a US base would be a 14th amendment citizen, just as if she had delivered in the US Embassy, which is US soil. With the SOFA agreement in place at that time, the Japanese citizenship of their daughter was waived, and the child would be exclusively a US citizen, (not natural born, but by US immigration and naturalization statutes extant at the time,(in the manner of Ted Cruz)
Both Michaelis AND his wife were natural born US citizens, serving their country overseas. Despite this, the location of their daughter’s birth makes her not even a 14th amendment citizen, but a statute citizen via the existing US Immigration and Naturalization laws.
I recall a story of a shot down Tuskegee Fighter pilot (I think it was from Lt. Col. Alexander Jefferson’s account “Red Tail Captured, Red Tail Free,” but I am not sure) who was interrogated by a German Oberleutnant speaking perfectly accented US English in the Stalag where he was being held.
The airman asked the German officer why he spoke such good English. He explained that he had been brought to the US by his parents when he was 10 years old. He was interned as an enemy alien by the 3rd Reich while visiting Germany by Adolph Hitler’s Declaration of war on the US on Dec 11 1941.
After a brief internment, he said that he had been drafted into the German Army under the German citizenship laws at the time as a VOLKSDEUTSCHE citizen. He fought on the Eastern Front, was wounded and transferred to the Western Front and fought against the Allies in Italy, including US troops. Wounded again, he was sent to the Stalag as an interrogator.
After the war, a charge of treason was considered against him. But the charges were dropped when it was determined that the Germans did have the right to conscript him as a natural born German citizen, under THEIR laws, and that he was a lawful enemy combatant.
Yes, circumstances can certainly dictate when you are subject to a foreign power.
Accordingly, the framers wanted to minimize (not guarantee) the likelihood of undue foreign influence upon the office of POTUS, particularly from a father owing an allegiance to a foreign sovereignty.
I am not claiming that my argument is definitive, but I truly would like to see it adjudicated rather than being ignored, or ridiculed.
He is NOT an Article II, section 1, clause 5 natural born citizen eligible for the POTUS.
I do not see why he is not eligible. Humor me.
Donald Trump Jr. is a 14th amendment citizen, owing to his Czech National mother. (She did not become a US citizen until after Don Jr. was born). See my post #56 for much more detail. Don Jr. is completely a citizen, save for eligibility to assume the office of POTUS. (A job and status that has only applied to 45 people in this nation’s entire history)
That does not make any difference.
“That does not make any difference.”
This is why I maintain that the SCOTUS has the obligation to make a definitive ruling on “natural born citizen”, with regard to Article II. Many people agree with me. Many agree with you. Let the court decide, it is their job. They have never ruled directly on the issue. So let it be done, rather than pretend that it is of no moment.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.