Posted on 04/02/2019 9:49:26 PM PDT by Cronos
Ridiculous. They cannot have effective control until they leave and thus get out from under Brussels’ thumb. Then when their own lawmakers pass laws they don’t like, they can throw the bastards out in the next election.
That as it turns out, is exactly what the British people voted for when they voted to leave the EU.
Did you expect the UK or Germany or France to say "I expect this" and everyone to bow down to them? The EU council doesn't work like this
The EU parliament works like any parliament of multiple parties -- coalitions. Nigel Farage was in a EU-wide coalition and they pushed their agenda through just like other EU-wide coalitions. No different than any other parliamentary system
1. The bureaucrats don't make the laws. The EU commission is explicitly told by the EU council i.e. the heads of government of the 28 countries, to go and draft up law proposals. JUST as the UK civil servants are told to draft up law proposals. the laws are MADE by the EU parliament of directly elected members
2. and they ARE held accountable - by the EU council and the EU parliament - who can throw them out and in one case nearly did (but the commissioners resigned to avoid that ignominy)
As I proved above, the european CIVIL servants the eu commission are MORE accountable than the UK civil servants and the British public has more ability to throw out Junckers than Jeremy Heywood
Next, These matters are clearly, as I've repeated to you ad nauesum ONLY decided by elected members -- laws in the EU are only decided by the EU parliament (including such luminaries as Nigel Farage) and the EU council (Theresa May and other heads of government) - these are then passed to the separate parliaments to be interpreted and put into national laws. So 3 layers of ELECTED officials - the EU council, the EU parliament and the national parliaments
The British people can fire Nigel Farage -- have you seen his record in Parliament? Even in non-Brexit matters he just twaddles his thumbs and does nothing -- and they can fire the other 72 British MEP's -- you seem to want the York voters to be able to chuck out Brighton and Hove MEPs and MPS
secondly, the comparison with the USA also shows that the EU is far from passing a blizzard either compared to the Uk or the USA. 2. The EU acts are EXPLICITLY stated as for the individual countries to interpret. the UK has consistently ADDED to the EU laws their own government ideas -- sneaking UK government ideas into EU bills to them blame the EU. This kind of lying is hardly "the hallmark of Anglo-Saxon countries" 3. The EU has 33,000 civil servants i.e. bureaucrats while the UK has 332,000 civil servants - ten times as many Or let's compare the UK and Germany - the UK has 80 civil servants for every 1000 citizens (the 6th highest in the EU after France with 88) and well above Germany with 56 civil servants per 1000 citizens. And the UK is the third highest in spending GDP for civil service (9%). So the UK has MORE bureaucracy than many non-Anglo-Saxon countries.
The British voters have effective control
would you say that Yorkshire voters should be able to vote out the Green MP from Brighton and Hove?
Just saying ridiculous doesn’t change the facts that you are demanding the British have more rights in the EU than every other country. The British already get more opt-outs than every single EU country and the British governments until Theresa May effectively creating alliances in the EU council and EU parliament to push their ideas through
No, I’m not saying the British should have more rights in the EU than any other country. I’m saying Brussels has usurped much of Britain’s national authority (as they have other countries in the EU) and that British voters will not have a way to hold those who make the laws they must live under truly accountable until they take back their full sovereignty from Brussels.
Nowhere did I ever say the same is not true for other countries in the “prison of nations” as it has been rightly called.
The British voters do not have effective control and will not have effective control until it is THEIR ELECTED lawmakers who are passing the laws. Only then will they have the power to vote the bums out. By themselves. Without need of anyone else.
You know as well as I that the EU doesn’t have to employ huge numbers of bureaucrats themselves. They can leave that to the member states. The EU passes the rules from on high that the member states must implement and enforce. If you look at the total amount of regulation within the EU compared to say, Australia, the difference is glaring. Its even worse than the US which is massively massively over regulated and which Americans bitch about all the time.
And the point about how busybodies in government either add to EU rules or support the passage of EU rules and then try to pass the blame for these unpopular measures off by say “its an EU directive...we here in Westminster didn’t pass it” is one I’ve been making for quite a while. Once stripped of this excuse, it will be much easier to expose these people and punish them at the polls for it.
LOL! You proved no such thing. EUrocrats are far more shielded from scrutiny and far less accountable than even bureaucrats in member countries. This has been complained about even by EU supporters for literally decades.
The British public....being citizens of but one member state, have FAR LESS ability to hold bureaucrats to account than they do their own. Their votes are but a tiny minority in the EU Parliament, they only get one Commissioner on the Commission, they only get one Counselor on the EU Council, etc whereas in Westminster their votes are the ONLY votes.
Farage’s entire point in the EU Parliament is that Britain should leave the EU. Of course he doesn’t bother with the rest. You have no point here.
What I and most of the British electorate want is for Britain to regain its full sovereignty by leaving the EU.
1. The Bureaucrats DO make the rules and regulations...and it is for them to interpret the laws to see what rules and regulations are needed to implement them. That is an ENORMOUS power.
2. They ARE NOT held accountable. Yes the EU politicians could throw them out but being so many member states with differing views, it is extremely difficult to do so and of course, several member states including France and Germany specifically want the EUrocrats to effectively legislate deeming political issues to be mere technical issues and therefore not requiring democratic debate and democratic votes.
The British people have the ability to fire them - a no-confidence motion. In fact the British people have MORE ability to fire Juncker than they have to fire a British Permanent Secretary (a UK civil servant) and the British people can fire MEP's just as they can fire MPs -- the people of York can't fire the Green MP from Brighton-and-Hove, so why do you expect the British liberals to fire Orban's real conservative members of the European parliament?
No they do NOT. They have FAR LESS ability to fire Juncker than they do a politician in Westminster. They can for example throw Theresa May out on her ass at the next general election. When can the British people throw Juncker out? What election will allow them to do that? Here you'll try to tap dance by mentioning other member states thus underlining my point. The British people themselves cannot. They are but one member state. With full sovereignty restored they can exercise much more direct control because other member states do not get a vote in how Brits elect their own leaders.
the Brits on the EU council have allied many, many times with other countries to push their way through -- and this is how the EU council operates, with alliances. Did you expect the UK or Germany or France to say "I expect this" and everyone to bow down to them? The EU council doesn't work like this The EU parliament works like any parliament of multiple parties -- coalitions. Nigel Farage was in a EU-wide coalition and they pushed their agenda through just like other EU-wide coalitions. No different than any other parliamentary system
The Brits are a minority. They are but one state of 28. In their own country they are 1 of......1! They get the only votes that count. They can exercise direct control.
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