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To: gandalftb
I correct myself in that regard, to wit, slavery was not the “only” cause of the Civil War. It was the single greatest irritation and the Civil War would not have been fought without it.

That is an excessively broad statement. While that statement is likely true, it misleads greatly as to the primary cause of the war.

What I have learned is that the South was producing 73-85% of all export value for the United States. The Northern states only produced 15-27% of the total export value to Europe, but strangely enough, 90% of all the money for the entire US export production funneled it's way back through New York and Boston.

The Northern Coalition had rigged the game so that virtually all the slave money flowed through their hands. They set the tariffs high because that boosted their profits for domestic manufactured goods, and the laws were rigged to give New York virtually total control on all shipping and imports. It is estimated from various sources that New York was getting 40% of the total profits from slave produced goods, and Washington DC collected their tax percentage on these same goods, and that absorbed another 20-30% of the entire value of all those slave produced goods.

New York and Washington DC were making a fortune off of Slavery, (More than the people actually running the plantations) and they didn't have to do much of anything to collect that money.

When the South decided to become independent, that flow of money (230 million per year in 1860 dollars) was going to stop. Worse, European goods would flow into the Southern states at greatly reduced prices, and there displace goods which were previously manufactured in the North, costing even further financial losses to the North.

Worse still, the Southern states would began supplying European manufactured goods all along the watershed of the Mississippi river, destroying the Midwestern market for goods manufactured in the North East.

Worse still, as the border states realized they could make more money off of the CSA system than they could off of the USA system, they would have eventually moved to join the Confederacy, causing even further losses of money and power to the then greatly weakened USA.

Where does slavery come into all of this? The slaves were producing the money. The fight was over the money, not over freedom for the slaves.

The reason Lincoln urged passage of the Corwin amendment was because they wanted those slaves to remain in the status quo of producing all that money which was flowing through New York and Washington DC hands!

The sticking point of the war was independence. There was no sticking point about keeping slaves in slavery. Both sides had intended to do that when the war began. The North continued keeping slaves for 8 more months after the war ended.

That's why I say that people have been misled about the cause of the war. Slavery is only indirectly involved. The real cause of the war was a fight over money.

For a view of the situation from the perspective of a British Abolitionist, Charles Dickens had this to say about the matter.

I take the facts of the American quarrel to stand thus. Slavery has in reality nothing on earth to do with it, in any kind of association with any generous or chivalrous sentiment on the part of the North. But the North having gradually got to itself the making of the laws and the settlement of the tariffs, and having taxed South most abominably for its own advantage, began to see, as the country grew, that unless it advocated the laying down of a geographical line beyond which slavery should not extend, the South would necessarily to recover it's old political power, and be able to help itself a little in the adjustment of the commercial affairs.

Every reasonable creature may know, if willing, that the North hates the Negro, and until it was convenient to make a pretense that sympathy with him was the cause of the War, it hated the Abolitionists and derided them up hill and down dale. For the rest, there's not a pins difference between the two parties. They will both rant and lie and fight until they come to a compromise; and the slave may be thrown into that compromise or thrown out, just as it happens."


55 posted on 05/01/2019 1:03:03 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

The fight over money clearly drove the ruling classes of the South.

But that won’t get the voluntary military muster that happened.

The Abolitionists and preachers drove the northern, you might say, hysteria over slavery.

Dickens, from his home in England, had no real idea what drove the feelings of Americans on the ground.

Once Fort Sumter was fired on, that and the background feelings over slavery and the Fugitive Slave Act caused the muster in the north.

In Iowa, my ancestors joined others to create 3 regiments, without a call from Lincoln or the Federal Army.

They mustered so quickly, without consultation from the Feds, that they chose gray uniforms that had to be replaced later when the Feds showed them that the correct color was blue.


71 posted on 05/02/2019 9:42:13 AM PDT by gandalftb
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To: DiogenesLamp
DL: ”Where does slavery come into all of this? The slaves were producing the money. The fight was over the money, not over freedom for the slaves.

The reason Lincoln urged passage of the Corwin amendment was because they wanted those slaves to remain in the status quo of producing all that money which was flowing through New York and Washington DC hands!

The sticking point of the war was independence. There was no sticking point about keeping slaves in slavery. Both sides had intended to do that when the war began. The North continued keeping slaves for 8 more months after the war ended.

That's why I say that people have been misled about the cause of the war. Slavery is only indirectly involved. The real cause of the war was a fight over money.

You poor misguided creature. That is the most convoluted argument I’ve ever heard. You are pulling the wool over your own eyes.

93 posted on 05/02/2019 4:25:59 PM PDT by HandyDandy (“all right, then, I’ll go to hell” H.Finn)
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To: DiogenesLamp
"For a view of the situation from the perspective of a British Abolitionist, Charles Dickens had this to say about the matter..."

Dickens was a fine novelist, but if I were to seek the political analysis of a 19th century Englishman, I would defer to what John Stuart Mill had to say on the matter.

96 posted on 05/02/2019 4:36:47 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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