[otness_e]

Yeah, and Jefferson was all for killing tyrants with his watering the tree of liberty speech, yet he backed some of the worst tyrants in existence, the Jacobins, who were the direct forefathers for the Bolsheviks, Nazis, and various Communist groups.

And I never said I didn't like it, I was just saying that the founding fathers never exactly indicated such. And just as an FYI, you can have a dislike of guns yet still let people have them without banning them. My mom, like I said, is wary of guns, and yet she doesn't try to get them banned at all, and has even gone to a firing range once with my cousin-in-law to get over it.

I might as well point out also that the citizenry having guns isn't necessarily all good. Let me point out the French Revolution had the citizenry owning shotguns, yet last I checked, they just used it to slaughter each other solely for fun, not even to ward off tyranny. I'll even quote it from Operation Parricide:

"The "moderates" fared just as badly. Cities like Lyon, Toulon and Bordeaux, which were led by the Girondists against the Jacobins, were partially leveled and their inhabitants decimated. When the guillotining threatened to go too slowly, many victims were drowned and others were executed with shotguns, so that the crowds could revel in seeing them slowly bleed to death. (Napoleon, a Jacobin, and close friend of Robespierre, achieved his first victory by subduing "unruly" Toulon.)" Source: http://www.culturewars.com/CultureWars/Archives/Fidelity_archives/parricide.html

Note that it did not say military officials or even government officials were the ones doing this, just crowds, indicating civilians, and more likely, mobs.

Heck, the Wild West had loads of citizens owning guns, and many times that was reputed to be utter lawlessness.

And just as an FYI, I'm pro-second amendment, at least insofar as people have a right to defend themselves.

[NorthMountain]

I was just saying that the founding fathers never exactly indicated such.

They deliberately left the Second Amendment open ended, just for people like you. It's open ended to cover things that had not yet been invented.

I'm pro-second amendment, at least insofar as people have a right to defend themselves.

Yes, people have the right to defend themselves from tyrants. The failure of some people to exercise that right properly in the past does not negate the right.

[JamesP81]

“Heck, the Wild West had loads of citizens owning guns, and many times that was reputed to be utter lawlessness.”

This is largely a Hollywood lie. Violent crime on the frontier was relatively low. Skirmishes with Native American tribes was another matter.

“I might as well point out also that the citizenry having guns isn’t necessarily all good. Let me point out the French Revolution had the citizenry owning shotguns, yet last I checked, they just used it to slaughter each other solely for fun, not even to ward off tyranny. I’ll even quote it from Operation Parricide:”

If the people have degnerated to that level of moral corruption, existence or non-existence of arms in the hands of the people will not stop them from butchering each other, but it might save the few who have not so degenerated by giving them an option to fight back.

“And just as an FYI, I’m pro-second amendment, at least insofar as people have a right to defend themselves.”

This leads me to believe you are, in fact, not pro-2A or you don’t understand what it means. You’re going to have to be more specific though.