Posted on 12/09/2019 8:32:24 AM PST by Cronos
Bob, you are correct of course. Cronos thinks that the Sabbath was only given/applies to the Jews. That’s why I asked that question.
Cronos: “And finally
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
Cronos, you are wrong yet once again. Here is an excerpt from an article that you should definitely read…..
“There are some who would point to Colossians 2:16 as evidence that today the Christian is released by God from observing any holy day what-so-ever, that the 10 Commandments themselves were nailed to the cross. The main reason they cite this verse is to show that there is no need for the “New Testament” Christian to observe the biblical Sabbath day (Saturday), and that anyone who does advocate Sabbath keeping is a legalist and an enemy of salvation by grace alone. Usually though, they do not quote verse 17, and rarely if ever do the explain the relevance of verse 17.
Yes, Cronos, you didn’t mention verse 17. Why, may I ask? You either have no idea what you are talking about or you are just being dishonest.
Here is the article
http://www.biblelight.net/shadow.htm
…“How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions?”
A broad based verse covering things local to these folks and is clarifying positions. Go to verse 17 to see that it is talking about the ceremonial drinks, foods and sabbaths when it refers to "shadow of Christ". They were foretelling of the Christ. Now that He has arrived and was victorious, those were nailed to the cross. The prohibition not to eat unclean meats (like pork) precedes the ceremonial law. And the real Sabbath precedes the two additional sabbaths of Mosaic law. They are no longer to be observed by Christians.
it may be a broad-based verse but not in context of the whole chapter or indeed the whole letter.
Colossians 2 emphasises how Christianity is the fulfilment of Judaism - where you have 11”In whom also you are circumcised with circumcision not made by hand, in despoiling of the body of the flesh, but in the circumcision of Christ: “
and
16 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths,”
17 “Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. “
and yes, that does say that you don’t need to observe all the Sabbath Pharasaical observances. Remember that the main description of what to do on Sabbath is in Leviticus, but the body of other texts was added later by the Pharisees around the Maccabean times
Verse 17 “Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. “
that says that Sabbath is a shadow of the Lord’s feast.
Perhaps you ought to read the bible Phil of Insufficient light - like Luke 6:5
Basically Jesus says that He has fulfilled the Sabbath. He has set a New Covenant with a wider “holy nation” - the Old Covenant remains with Jews but God’s salvic plan is then extended to the entire human race.
And after that, read history and see that the Church never changed the Sabbath day.
And Christians since Apostolic times have celebrated the Lord’s Day - Sunday - that’s when they congregated.
Now your own new religion, the SDA, a non-Christian one - came up in the 1800s created by the profitess Ellen G White (a peer of John Smith, the creator of another 1800s cult, the Mormons) and doesn’t do that - ok, since the SDA aren’t Christian, that’s fine, do whatever cultic beliefs ya want
Cronos: “Basically Jesus says that He has fulfilled the Sabbath. He has set a New Covenant with a wider “holy nation” - the Old Covenant remains with Jews but God’s salvic plan is then extended to the entire human race.”
You could not be more wrong. Here is the new covenant laid out in Hebrews. Catholics read that book, don’t they Cronos?
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
The Old and New Covenant
The Old Covenant was a promise by the people of Israel to keep the letter of God’s Law, and the mediator of the Old Covenant was Moses:
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
After the terms of the covenant were agreed to by the people of God, the covenant was solemnly inaugurated by the sprinkling of blood of sacrificed animals:
Exo 24:5 And he [Moses] sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
Exo 24:6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basins; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exo 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Note that to confirm the covenant, there was a meal on mount Sinai attended by representatives of Israel. The blood of the testament signaled that the covenant with God was now in effect, and both parties were bound by its terms. The terms of the Old Covenant were the Law of God, obedience by Israel to the Ten Commandments, the two tables of stone inscribed by God with His Law, and kept in the Ark of the Covenant.
How did the Old Covenant fail?
Deu 5:27 Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.
Deu 5:28 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken.
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Deu 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
The Old Covenant is called by Paul the ministration of death and condemnation: The New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit, and the ministration of righteousness:
2 Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2 Cor 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2 Cor 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
How is the New Covenant different?
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
The animal sacrifices under the Old Covenant were mere symbols of the yet to be sacrificed lamb of God, whose sacrifice, death, and shed blood would inaugurate the New Covenant. The New Covenant is also made with Israel:
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; for he is faithful that promised;
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
The terms or substance of the New Covenant are the same as that of the Old Covenant, obedience to the Ten Commandments. However, the New Covenant is a better promise, a promise by God to write His laws into the hearts and minds of the people of Israel, and to remember their sins no more.
The Last Will and Testament of Jesus Christ
When did the New Covenant go into effect and who is the mediator?
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he [Jesus] is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of [His] death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
The New Covenant came into effect with the sacrifice, shedding of blood, and death of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. As this Testament of Jesus Christ was put into effect by His death, the terms of the Testament cannot be changed by anyone after that.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
A covenant, testament or will cannot be changed by anyone once the testator has died. Paul in Hebrews 9 is saying that the New Covenant is the last will and testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and as such it is not subject to alteration or annulment of its terms Gal 3:15. The terms of the New Covenant, in effect from the moment of the death of Jesus, and not subject to change by anyone, are the Ten Commandments of God. The Ark of the Covenant / Ark of the Testimony contained the substance or terms of both covenants, the Ten Commandments. It is impossible that the Sabbath commandment could be changed, that Sunday could replace the Sabbath in the New Covenant, after the death of Jesus on the cross! To attempt to change the terms of a last will or testament after the death of the testator is illegal and fraudulent in any court of law.
Consider this. The purpose of a last will and testament is to reveal the names of those who will inherit. The last will and testament of Jesus Christ therefore includes a list of beneficiaries or inheritors. What do they inherit? Eternal life and the kingdom of God. This list or testament is also called the Lamb’s book of life! Phil 4:3, Rev 3:5, Rev 13:8, Rev 17:8
Now think about this. When in scripture is the last will and testament of Jesus Christ opened and read, so that the inheritors can all be identified? Here is the clue. In the ancient Roman world, a will a Praetorian Testament was sealed with the seals of seven witnesses to attest to the validity of the will. See Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities, edited By William Smith, LL. D., Second Edition, Boston, Little, Brown, & Company, 1870, entry on Testamentum, pg. 1117. A praetor was a Roman magistrate, a judge. When Jesus was examined by Pilate this was done in the praetorium or judgment hall John 18:28,33; 19:9, which is also where He was mocked and given a crown of thorns Matt 27:27; Mark 15:16.
Yes! The last will and testament of Jesus Christ is the scroll with seven seals in Revelation 5:1 - 8:1! It could only be opened by the mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ Himself. While it is being read, the investigative judgment is still underway. When the reading of the will concludes, probation for humanity comes to an end because all those who will inherit have been identified.
The cup of the Lord’s supper is an acceptance of this New Covenant.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
So when you partake of communion, you are expressing faith in Jesus Christ as your saviour, an acceptance of the New Covenant, to let God write His law in your heart and mind Heb 10:16. By doing so, you are added to the list of beneficiaries in the last will and testament of Jesus Christ, the Lamb’s Book of Life. You might just say we are sealed by this New Covenant as a child of God.
Cronos: “Basically Jesus says that He has fulfilled the Sabbath. He has set a New Covenant with a wider “holy nation” - the Old Covenant remains with Jews but God’s salvic plan is then extended to the entire human race.”
the ceremonial law was nailed to the cross. The old covenant failed because the Jews did not do what God asked.
New coventant (also talked about in the old testament)
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
What could be more clear Cronos?
So Cronos, what laws did God put into our minds and write in our hearts? Please share that with the class if you would.
It doesn't say THE 7th day Sabbath is a shadow. It is a memorial to Gods creation (Genesis). That's not a shadow of anything.
The ceremonial laws and sabbaths were nailed to the cross (not the Ten Commandments written in stone by Gods Finger). Big difference. Lev. 23:38 makes the distinction between ceremonial (shadow) sabbaths and the one true Sabbath applicable to ALL of mankind.
And Christians since Apostolic times have celebrated the Lord’s Day - Sunday -
Chapter and verse on this "celebration". They may have met on Sunday (and other d ys) but nowhere is there reference to any solemnity or celebrating Sunday as a holy day of rest.
I have news for you Cronos: Christians are spiritual Jews. We are grafted into the tree.
Romans 2:28 A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.
Spiritual Jews will keep God’s laws because the love Jesus Christ and accept that he died for their sins.
“If you love me, keep my commandments. If you say you love me and you don’t keep my commandment, YOU ARE A LIAR.”
“And, if you teach others to break my commandments, you will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (you won’t be there and all the saints will be dissing you for all eternity, etc....) Matthew 5: 17-19
Cronos, you dump on the one commandment that God said to remember, because it shows that the living God is our Creator. Your church blasphemes the Creator and his Holy Day. I would not be proud of that if I were you.
Plenty of Jews are going to be in heaven and they will be the ones who believed in Jesus as their savior and kept God’s laws.
Plenty of Christians, on the other hand, will not be in heaven because even though they said they believed in Jesus as their savior, they didn’t keep the commandments of God, the one’s that he was to put into our minds and write on our hearts. This is a very clear concept that you for some reason can’t grasp Cronos.
Rev: 12: 17And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.
Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Cronos, even someone like you should be able to understand that the two characteristics that everyone in heaven will have are that they believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that they have kept the commandments of God.
What commandments, Cronos? God’s commandments (that you teach others to break) or your made up ones?
Anyone that is trapped in one of these cults like the SDA, HRC, Mormons, etc., needs to go and read Galatians. And if you claim to have already read it you need to seriously go back and carefully, painstakingly, re-read it like you’ve never read it before.
Which cult are you trapped in?
You obviously have never read or do not understand Galatians. Good day.
I have read and understood enough to make my points and back them up with The Word of God instead of a drive-by smear job and slink back into the shadows. Good day.
“Anyone that is trapped in one of these cults like the SDA, HRC, Mormons, etc., needs to go and read Galatians. And if you claim to have already read it you need to seriously go back and carefully, painstakingly, re-read it like you’ve never read it before.”
And what is it going to tell us? Please elaborate.
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