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To: Sans-Culotte

It’s kind of funny. On paper, the Founding Fathers left us wonderful stuff. Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Federalist Papers, etc. That stuff stands the test of time and we are much the better for it.

However, as individuals, many of the Founding Fathers were sort of jerks. As far as I know, George Washington was nearly perfect. But Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, and others were somewhat nasty people.

But does it matter? Our current president is sometimes criticized for his “offensive” tweets and whatnot. I think President Trump can stand proudly alongside any of the Founding Fathers. I judge them by their actions.


4 posted on 12/20/2019 7:01:04 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (If White Privilege is real, why did Elizabeth Warren lie about being an Indian?)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Maybe not caring what anyone thinks leads to both doing the right (not the popular) thing and being rough around the edges, and that’s why you see those traits together often.


23 posted on 12/20/2019 4:02:08 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: ClearCase_guy
"Our current president is sometimes criticized for his “offensive” tweets and whatnot."

I've learned over the past four years, that President Trump doesn't say anything there isn't an explanation for. And he doesn't say things, unless he already knows it's true. I was visiting old friends on Thursday, and the subject of President Trump's comment about John Dingell came up. My friends are Trump supporters, but were Democrats for most of their lives, and said they will never vote for another Democrat as long as they live. They're not avid readers of the news on the internet, and although I've steered the wife to Free Republic, and The Liberty Daily, I know she doesn't view them. We're all in our 70's, but let's just say that I'm more politically savvy than they are.

The husband asked me why Trump would say something like that. I told him that there's always a reason why President Trump says things. I told him I would check it out when I got home, and let him know. On my return home I checked FR, plus I did a search for Dingell, and found his tweet from October, 2016 telling DJT to "take two running jumps and go to hell." I also read that he had been throwing many barbs at Trump during the campaign. I read a bit of his biography, and how he'd been in Congress for decades, and that his wife succeeded him when he retired, thus creating a dynasty for themselves. I read how President Trump had approved special services, etc. for Dingell's funeral in February, and how his wife had thanked President Trump profusely for helping out. Then she voted for impeachment. I immediately called my friends up, and told them why Trump had said what he said, and they clearly understood because they hadn't seen or heard anything about Dingell's original comment, and had no idea the guy's wife had voted to impeach the President.

31 posted on 12/22/2019 10:52:25 AM PST by mass55th ("Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway." ~~ John Wayne)
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To: ClearCase_guy
However, as individuals, many of the Founding Fathers were sort of jerks. As far as I know, George Washington was nearly perfect. But Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, and others were somewhat nasty people.

Adams was a crotchety old guy. Nasty in that way, but not mean to other folks. Hamilton was a playa, ambitious, scheming, but he'd seen how hard it was to get through the revolution and the chaos that followed and wanted to give the country something solid to build on. Jefferson was something of a narcissist, a great idealist but somebody who was blind to a lot that was going on around him, somebody who lived more in his own head and imagination and ideals. He could make trouble for people around him because his view of the world didn't reflect realities well. But seeing them as they were can give one more appreciation for what they achieved, rather than less.

42 posted on 12/22/2019 4:21:09 PM PST by x
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