Posted on 04/12/2022 2:53:26 AM PDT by Kaslin
You mean I keep spreading facts which refute your BS narrative. They are absolutely true and the fact that that bothers you is music to my ears.
And yet, that's just what happened.
I think i'm going to skip this message. It's already starting off ridiculous.
I've shown you the numbers from Kettle's book written in 1860, and other people have shown you the official records which say exactly the same thing.
That you chose not to believe the financial records is entirely on you.
*That* makes a lot more sense. I could barely see an 80 something year old man in 1994 having a civil war grandfather, but someone living today having a civil war grandfather? Hard to believe.
Great Grandfather I believe.
One of my grandfathers was born in 1889, the other was born in 1886.
I support the right of self determination for all oppressed peoples.
The US won the war and America is better for it.
And how do you know that? It may have well turned out better for everybody if the South had managed to remain free of Corrupt, nasty, evil Washington DC.
Certainly the world would have been better off had the South separated from the North.
American intervention in WWI would likely have never happened with a much weaker Northern USA, and stopping American intervention in WWI would likely have stopped all the subsequent atrocities such as the Holodomor, Nazis, Atomic Bombs, China's genocide, the Khmer Rouge and a whole host of horrible things that happened last century.
You say the USA is better off than it could have been, but it appears clear that humanity may be a lot worse off than it could have been. In fact, I find it hard to see a course we could have followed that would have killed more people or caused more suffering than the path we did follow.
America would have seen the CSA and USA split and defeated by the British.
I really think the British had given up on trying to reacquire the colonies by the 1860s.
I have begun to think that people named "Joy" are idiots. This is certainly true of Joy Behar and Joy Reid. Stupidest bitches on television.
Yeah, I guess Behar missed that part about God burning cities full of homosexuals to death, or the Battle of Gibeah where all the Armies of Israel wiped out all the homosexuals in the city of Benjamin.
And of course there is Leviticus which actually says homosexuals should be killed.
Yeah, she's an idiot.
I have long said that the civil war was a war between Hamiltonians and Jeffersonians. One represents big cities, big power and an intrusive government that taxes heavily, while the other represents small government, agricultural areas and desires a small unintrusive government.
The civil war never really ended, it just went into a slow smolder.
What you just said, both of which are incorrect. Slavery was already "preserved" in the Union, and Lincoln and his pawns in Congress were going to "preserve" it even more with their "Corwin Amendment", and slavery could *NOT* expand into the territories because it was economically impossible.
You need to let your Karma run over your Dogma. :)
Yes Sir! I’ve often thought how wonderful it would be to travel back in time to that day circa 1861 when he and others were at the church and he was saying his good byes to everyone and preparing to ride off to war probably thinking he would never make it back. Instead, it was his brother and his brother’s son that didn’t make it back. I’m proof of that.
Anyway, I literally would just give my left arm to be able to walk up to him and shake his hand as he was mounting his horse and say to him........”good luck grandpa, I’m your Grandson 90 years from now”...........! In my dream, I imagined he would dismount and for an hour or so we would make great conversation with dozens of people standing around us listening intently.
See my post to Theophillus today at 6:54 pm CST.
And on that note let's end the conversation on this one. Until the next time you post something stupid.
I accept your surrender and I would set the same terms for you....but that would obligate me to respond to every post you make. I don't have that much time to waste.
LOL! Always a legend in your own mind, aren't you.
No, someone once said that it's hard enough winning an argument with a smart man, and impossible to win on with as stupid one. So I'm just cutting my losses and following that advice. Belatedly.
A certain person that I'm going to call “DD” (not her real name) and I have had a disagreement and I think your point is relevant.
Here is why. The thirteenth amendment abolished slavery and is widely known to have made the mention of “three fifths of all other Persons” in Article I, Section 2 moot.
When racist math was taught in school the teacher would write stuff on the board like: If A=B, Then B=A.
Using that kind of logic, if slavery is a reference to three fifths of all other persons, then three fifths of all other persons is a reference to slavery.
Now the tricky part. Please do not let DD know you and I have discussed logic behind her back. It will just make her mad as all get out. And her throwing Kamala word-salad all over you is not going to do you any good either.
If this DD says anything to you just say her board name was NEVER MENTIONED AT ALL in this post. She should accept that.
No. Nor do I need to be to smack down your pathetic arguments obviously like I've done in this thread.
No, someone once said that it's hard enough winning an argument with a smart man, and impossible to win on with as stupid one. So I'm just cutting my losses and following that advice. Belatedly.
LOL! Lemme put it this way.....I'd be happy to compare degrees or IQ scores with you any day.
You didn’t bother reading my reply, did you?
Sure. The late 19th century happened. And then the 20th. It was harder to keep the slaves and other deplorables in line. And cotton profits were going to go way down when Egypt, India, China, Brazil and other countries got into the business.
Are you referring to before the war or after the war started?
"Kentucky was a border state of key importance in the American Civil War. It officially declared its neutrality at the beginning of the war, but after a failed attempt by Confederate General Leonidas Polk to take the state of Kentucky for the Confederacy, the legislature petitioned the Union Army for assistance." -- Wikipedia
You are leaving out the fact that US government law *forced* them to purchase products and services from the Northern companies or pay heavy penalties for not doing so. It wasn't a free market, it was a protectionist market designed to benefit the behind the scenes powers made up of the wealthy industrialists of the North.
I'm not sure that the penalties were that high. Tariffs were low, especially after 1846, when Democrats lowered them.
Yes, I am aware that the population of the North was much larger, but this is irrelevant to the fact that without patronage compelled by the Federal Government, that money wouldn't have ended up in the pockets of that Northern population. It would have remained in the hands of the Southern exporters to do with as they pleased, and without the artificially distorted market, they likely would have ended up buying a lot more European manufactured products.
That is also doubtful. How much were they really going to buy? How many crystal chandeliers do you need? The rich could buy foreign luxury items if they wanted. For the average Joe, I really doubt a bucket or a box of nails shipped all the way from Europe would have cost much less than one made here. If you wanted a fence post or a drinking trough, you probably made your own.
The rich, powerful wealthy elite of the Northeast which controlled Washington DC would become financially devastated by the free(er) Market policies of the CSA, and many would have been rendered destitute.
You entirely miss the point about what would have happened in an independent Confederacy. What actually happened in the late 19th century? Germany and the US protected their own industries with tariffs. Companies got profits at home. They could afford to export products more cheaply than the free trading British because they already had the profits. This is called dumping. This is what the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese were accused of doing in the late 20th century. Arguably, then, US industries would make out pretty well with an independent South. They could easily undersell British products, and those British products became less and less desirable as Germany and the US surged ahead economically. Note too, that if the South didn't adopt protective tariffs of their own, they would be unlikely to industrialize.
And here again we see the inevitable Leftist Democrat response to facts inconvenient to their favorite historical fantasies.
In this particular case the fact is that as of the Civil War's 1st anniversary in April 1862, 60% of all military engagements happened in Union states & territories, only 40% in the Confederacy.
Both of those things happened after the war. It was the war that destroyed their system, and you can't rationally claim their system would not have continued to work simply because it was destroyed by a war. What would have happened without a war? I say it would have continued awhile longer, but eventually (between 20 and 80 years) it would have disappeared on it's own, but this wouldn't have happened immediately without the war.
And cotton profits were going to go way down when Egypt, India, China, Brazil and other countries got into the business.
Here you go again trying to claim that events which happened *BECAUSE* of a war, would have happened without a war. Those other countries growing cotton only happened because of the war. With the Union navy cutting off supply, the manufacturers had no other choice than to pay higher prices and promote cultivation elsewhere.
Had the South been allowed to continue selling without interference, there is no way another nation could have competed with them for price or supply.
"Kentucky was a border state of key importance in the American Civil War. It officially declared its neutrality at the beginning of the war,
Well there you go. This was after the war started, and everyone was trying whatever they could to win the war. You tried to make this analogous to the South invading other states without provocation, but that is clearly not the case here.
I'm not sure that the penalties were that high.
For using foreign ships or crew, the penalties were fines and complete confiscation of the cargo, the ship and jail time for the owners of the cargo and anyone else involved in the effort to get around the Navigation Act of 1817.
You could lose everything if you tried to go around the US government's designated shipping companies.
Tariffs were low, especially after 1846, when Democrats lowered them.
Tariffs weren't the whole picture. Government forced patronage resulted in a great deal of money going into the connected Northern pockets.
That is also doubtful. How much were they really going to buy?
Who knows? When people spend their own money, they can buy whatever they want.
How many crystal chandeliers do you need?
I don't know how often stuff like that was purchased, but my understanding is that the dominant things bought by the South were metal items and machines. Engines for their ships and trains as well as steel rails could have come from England, but for the protectionist policies forcing them to come from the North.
I have read Northern newspapers complaining about the prospect of the Southerners importing railroad irons from England.
Arguably, then, US industries would make out pretty well with an independent South. They could easily undersell British products,...
If they could easily undersell British products, why did they need the tariffs? Why did they need the "navigation act of 1817"? Why did they need all those laws passed to help them compete and why did they need subsidies?
My recollection is that you were asserting things to be "facts" which were not actually facts, but were instead things you wished to believe.
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