Posted on 04/18/2022 10:43:43 AM PDT by marcusmaximus
For days after the Moskva cruiser sank in the Black Sea, Yulia Tsyvova had been desperately searching for information about her son Andrei.
Like hundreds of other Russian families of the crew members, she had not been told whether he had survived the reported Ukrainian missile attack that had sunk the Russian flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
Then on Monday morning she received a call from the Russian defence ministry. Her son was dead.
“He was only 19, he was a conscript,” said Tsyvova, who wept as she spoke by telephone. “They didn’t tell me anything else, no information on when the funeral would be.
(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...
But that isn't Putin's fault for sending them there. It is Zelensky's fault for not surrendering.
Or something like that, anyway....
The lack of compassion for the average Russian families who have no more say over what their “government” does than you and I do over the border issue troubles me. I have never wished any ill on the Russian people nor do I wish ill on the Chinese people.
War is most often a game played for the egos of the old that is paid for with the blood of the young and tears of mothers.
Look at what our neocon class in politics, academia, corporate America, and within government agencies just foisted upon our nation for two decades in the sandbox.
“He was only 19, he was a conscript,” said Tsyvova, who wept as she spoke by telephone. “They didn’t tell me anything else, no information on when the funeral would be.“I am sure he isn’t the only one who died.”
Family members of sailors who served onboard the Moskva are demanding answers as the ministry has sought to suppress information about what happened to the ship or its estimated 510-strong crew.
The total number of dead, wounded and missing remains a state secret. Tsyvov’s death, which has not been previously reported, is only the second confirmed from the warship. Another three families have gone public saying they cannot find their sons who were serving onboard.
Media reports suggest the number of casualties from the attack will be far higher, and the efforts to suppress information about the deaths have raised comparisons with the Kursk submarine incident that left 118 sailors dead and struck a blow to the prestige of a young President Vladimir Putin in 2000.
“This regime has never been very transparent about casualties,” said Alexander Gabuev, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Moscow Center, pointing to Russia’s military operations in Ukraine and Syria or the investigations into attacks at Beslan and the Dubrovka theatre. “A lot of this has precedence and it’s not something very new or very surprising.”
New information on the young sailors who died will also renew scrutiny about the Russian government’s use of conscripts in battle, something Putin had explicitly denied was the case early in the war.
The defence ministry was forced to admit it had deployed conscripts after some were captured in Ukraine in the first weeks of the war. It claimed it would no longer use them.
But several parents of Moskva crew members have told the Guardian and others that their sons onboard the ship were indeed conscripts and not professional soldiers on contract.
“A conscript who isn’t supposed to see active fighting is among those missing in action,” wrote Dmitry Shkrebets, whose son Yegor was a cook on the ship and is listed as missing in action. “Guys, how can you be missing in action in the middle of the high seas?!!!”
Photos and a video purporting to show the Moskva shortly before it sank emerged on Monday, nearly four days after it sank. The images showed that its lifeboats had been deployed, indicating an order was likely given to abandon ship.
Families of several crew members have said they managed to locate their family members alive.
Eskender Djeparov said he recognised his brother Akbar in a video released by the defence ministry that showed sailors from the Moskva meeting a top admiral in Sevastopol after the ship sank.
“We were very happy when we saw him in the video of the crew in Sevastopol,” Djeparov said. “The day after the tragedy, he called our mother and said that he is alive and well. That she shouldn’t worry about him. He hasn’t told us what happened, he doesn’t say much. He calls us from different numbers. He is a conscript, he started last July. He definitely never signed a contract.”
A still image taken from a video released by Russia is said to show Moskva crew members in Sevastopol on Saturday
A family member of crew member Evgeny Grinberg said via online messenger that “his condition is fine and I do not intend to divulge military secrets”.
“It’s fraught with consequences,” wrote Valery Grinburg of Monchegorsk, near Murmansk. “And Evgeny did not say anything anyway.”
Asked if he was onboard the ship, he wrote “yes” and then deleted the message. Asked how he knew about his relative’s condition, he wrote: “I called into the ministry of defence.”
But many others have been less lucky. Shkrebets was one of the first to go public demanding answers about why his son was sent to war. “They said that the entire crew was evacuated. It’s a lie! A cruel and cynical lie!”
His wife, Irina, told the independent Russian website the Insider that they had seen about 200 injured sailors at a military hospital in Crimea while looking for their son. The total crew of the Moskva was estimated at just over 500.
“We looked at every burnt kid,” she told the Insider. “I can’t tell you how hard it was, but I couldn’t find mine. There were only 200 people, and there were more than 500 onboard the cruiser. Where were the others? We looked in Krasnodar, and everywhere else, we called every place, but we couldn’t find him.”
Other families had reached out to the Shkrebets hoping to find more information.
“We were contacted by three families from Yalta, Alupka and St Petersburg, whose children are also missing, also conscripts,” her husband wrote on Monday, adding they had submitted a written request for more information at the local enlistment office.
“We need written answers to our questions about finding our children, not text messages with pictures and prayers,” he said.
Other parents were clearly more fearful of speaking out. Ulyana Tarasova of St Petersburg wrote online: “My son, Tarasov Mark, is missing in action aboard the cruiser Moskva.”
Hours later, her post was gone.
Others who spoke with Russian media have asked for anonymity for fear of facing reprisals from the government.
The mother of another sailor told the Novaya Gazeta Europe website that three missiles had struck the Moskva. She said about 40 people had died, several were missing, and “there are many wounded”.
What funeral?
He is under alot of seawater....
LOLOLOL...I crack myself up
Worse than “Baghdad Bob”.
You and me both FRiend. You and me both.
However, for all his warts and pugnacious personality there is NOBODY who is more correct about US politics in my opinion than Steve Bannon.
I am not talking about his analysis which is as hit or miss as the rest of us.
I am talking about his understanding that real political change and movement begins at the grass roots and local level. If people who supported the MAGA agenda can stay as motivated as they have been it is possible that the majority will exert influence on the minority. Very possible.
We will find out in November. That kind of sweeping change would never be possible in Russia or China.
Why? Who gives a ****. They aren't American sailors. We should be more concerned about the lives and safety our own Border Patrol. You know, actual Americans.
Now it’s 3 missiles. Maybe it’ll be 4 tomorrow plus a strafing run by stolen Stormoviks.
Yeah I think the highest ranking officers should be the first ones fighting. I’d include the highest civilians in charge as well, the president, defense ministers/secretaries, etc.
Think we’d generally have less wars and less desire for them.
The ship is, but the crew was mostly evacuated. The photos of the ship just before it sunk shows lifeboats missing.
But it was also a storm at the time — so yes, some may be under water.
Memory Eternal for those who lost their lives serving their country.
The legend lives on
From the Bolsheviks on down
Of the big ship they called 'Moskeva.'
The Black Sea it is said
Never gives up her dead
When the missiles of Ukraine come early
Having empathy for the loss of human life costs nothing. If you feel nothing and ridicule those who do, that says quite a bit about you.
Thanks. I'll put some BLM flags out on the lawn so that people will like and approve of me.
“That kind of sweeping change would never be possible in Russia or China.”
Exactly. Just look at what’s going on in Shanghai!
And your response is…Who the eff cares…What on earth does BLM flags on your lawn have to do with that, in any conceivable way?
Dear mothers and other good citizens of Russia,
Commie Putin hates you, and won’t hesitate to waste your lives, by the millions if need be.
Rise up. Free your country of its commie rulers!
And our votes are reliably tabulated by the "Dominion" machines.
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