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To: Alas Babylon!

It matters for the Russians because most of these settlements have Russian-speaking Russian heritage citizens who have been persecuted by years from Kiev. After the failure of Minsk to protect them and allow some autonomy, they finally voted to leave Ukraine and become part of Russia. Now Russia owes than protection.

Most of the Uke conscripts dragged unto the eastern battle are not from Eastern Ukraine, whereas the local DPR/LNR militias have developed into tens of thousands of men now fighting with and as part of the Russian army, for their own land and families. Plus the Russians have seen the retaliation launched on people when they leave an area and Ukes move in. Again, they owe these people protection.

Bucha being an early example, staged as a “Russian’ atrocity. Another possibly being prepared for staging in Kharkov.

Really curious why gung ho western analysts think they are going to gain support of locals to “ liberate” these areas, and Crimea, after their treatment by the nationalists dominating Kiev.


20 posted on 01/10/2023 10:07:30 AM PST by silverleaf (“Freedom ultimately means the right of other people to do things that you disagree with”. T. Sowell )
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To: silverleaf

What you’ve said is straight out of the Russians propaganda playbook. The real facts would show massive atrocities done by BOTH sides. While I don’t agree with Russians abrupt invasion (no equivalent of Colin Powel before the UN, for example). It is important to at least go through the motions to show the world your case. Even the Soviets knew that. However, I don’t agree with the Ukrainians on this issue, either. I don’t believe anything without alot more weighed by substantial third party’s proof.

Why does everything start at Maidan and 2014, the Minks protocols, etc.? Russia has been interfering with the Ukraine long before then. I remember them poisoning the President in 2004. That would have been a causa belli if they did that to say, George Bush. Or us to Putin. Everyone seems to forget the pre-2014 events that laid a lot of the groundwork FOR 2014.

I do agree that the West pushed the coup in 2014. I do agree that Eastern regions of Ukraine should be allowed to decide their own fate.

The best answer is to do what Elon Musk suggested. All Russian troops leave, as well as Ukraine and Donbass militias. Have a UN supervised referendum on whether Donbassians and Crimeans stay in Ukraine/Russia, join Russia/Ukraine or go independent.

However, this solution would “serve” neither side.

So people will die.


23 posted on 01/10/2023 10:44:11 AM PST by Alas Babylon! (Gov't declaring misinformation is tyranny: “Who determines what false information is?” )
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