Posted on 07/16/2023 4:16:53 AM PDT by hardspunned
NEW YORK, July 16. /TASS/. Ukraine has lost about 20% of military equipment and weapons since it started its counteroffensive, the New York Times reported on Saturday, citing US officials.
Equipment losses have recently dropped to 10% as Ukrainian troops essentially stopped advancing in many areas, the report said.
The newspaper said US officials agreed to disclose only the percentage of losses, declining to provide hard numbers of destroyed equipment.
(Excerpt) Read more at tass.com ...
For your Sunday viewing pleasure. Good program.
100%
After Suffering Heavy Losses, Ukrainians Paused to Rethink Strategy
The Bradleys have done part of their job well; their thick armor has provided good protection for most soldiers, who have survived many of the mine blasts with few injuries.
“Your ears ring and things inside fly around,” said one soldier, who asked to be identified only by his first name and rank, Pvt. Serhiy. He survived such an explosion last month in fighting south of the town of Orikhiv in the Zaporizhzhia region.
Ukraine’s 47th Mechanized Brigade, one of the three Western-equipped and trained units that were deployed early in the campaign, was set to receive 99 Bradleys, according to the leaked U.S. military plans for the counteroffensive from February — still the most recent that have been made public.
Data from Oryx, a military analysis site that counts only losses that it has visually confirmed, show that 28 of those Bradleys have been abandoned, damaged or destroyed, including 15 in a village in Zaporizhzhia Province on June 8 and 9 as the 47th was attacked by helicopters while trapped in a minefield. The Oryx data show that only 24 tanks were lost for the entire month of June, including some from Ukraine’s own arsenal in addition to those supplied by Western allies.
Ten of them were German-made Leopard tanks and mine-clearers, the data show. Presumably, they were lost in battle with Ukraine’s 33rd Mechanized Brigade, one of the three units deployed early in the counteroffensive, and which was slated to receive 32 Leopards in the U.S. planning documents from Feb. 28.
Soooo...in the grand scheme of things, the losses are actually minor for a war of this size and scale, and considering how few Western tanks and armored vehicles have actually been sent to Ukraine. And those that have arrived on the battlefield are doing their jobs in saving Ukrainian solders' lives.
Remind me again how many thousands of tanks and other vehicles the Russians have lost?
Time for the Ukraine and Russia to start peace talks even if it means Ukraine will have to give up some of its’ lost territory including Crimea and Crimea access routes.
My conspiracy theory guess.
Add the new stuff (Leporad tanks) 20%, to the old rusted soviet era stuff 80%.
Roll out the new stuff for the counter offensive.
Watch the Russia defense smash and vaporize the new stuff.
Stop counter offensive and claim only 20% of your stuff was lost
Did the NYTs say 20%, then an additional 10% or not? Yes or no? As I said, unlike you, I’m hesitant to post inflated figures from either side. I merely stated that BOTH state propaganda organs agree. You don’t like the figures, take it up with them. Quit posting disinfo without a disclaimer. Also, whatever the Ukes lost, 1% or 50%, most of it obviously was new NATO stuff.
There was a scene in a movie, I think it was “Patton.” A reporter is needling the general. The general says something like, (numbers made up)”I know this. For every attack I’m losing between fifteen and fifty men per hour. We’re losing a tank every forty minutes. We’re burring eight thousand gallons of fuel and we have to evacuate one hundred and fifty wounded. Of that half will die.” The point is war costs casualties, equipment and ordinance.
America fought a series of mostly bloodless (from the American standpoint) wars. The public got used to the idea that war was a videogame. It isn’t. The war in Ukraine is more like a combination of WWI and a HighTech game with real deaths.
We were so eager to accept the “peace dividend.” The militaries were cut across the globe. War was a thing of the past. Except every time the price of oil was high, Russia invaded somebody. Not so much driven by available cash from oil, China rolled over former borders and used “soft power” to salami-slice territory from (19?) neighbor states.
War is alive and well and we’d better start building equipment and forces with that in mind.
I lost a bracelet once. How do you “lose” multiple vehicles and weapons?
Guessing they were sold on the black market to China.
Hey, I just posted relevant excerpts from the actual New York Times article sourced by your TASS article, which was just re-reporting it through the Russian filter. One would think that the source article would have more credence than the article that re-reported it.
Why are you disparaging the Ukrainian Army? They take ground from the Russians and fight bravely and judiciously and make good use of the equipment they have. We have a one-time-zone country outfighting an eleven-time-zone country. One day soon my wife’s hometown of Alchevsk may be liberated from the Mohammedan and criminal Russian occupiers. There will be great rejoicing in the Donbas when that day occurs.
The Ukraine war uses munitions at an incredible rate. Luckily, the old Soviet Union and its Allie’s were prepared for this type of conflict. As long as Ukraine fights Russia playing to Russia strengths people will die and the war will continue. Ukraine needs air superiority over the battlefield to break through. Likely, as Ukraine tires, combat aircraft will be inevitable, or….
If Ukraine can’t free itself and it’s lost territory,, I expect another solution as Biden leaves office. Divided Ukraine probably best served by Polish annexation of the free part. That will make it NATO territory. Putin will have placed his nation on the cusp of ultimate failure, lost all of his buffer ground, and enhanced failing NATO to make it unified and viable. Stupid war, stupid prizes.
A successful Ukrainian counter offensive against dug in Russian defense is a mission impossible. They would need huge air superiority to win which they dont have.
Remember the US had absolute air and navy firepower superiority at Iwo Jima in WW II and still it took a month to take that small island from dug in Japanese troops.. Over 3 months at Okinawa.Both with high American casualties
These are the reality that Ukraine is facing.
I support the Ukrainian peoples fight against the brutal invasion of the Russian Army but pursuing this counter offensive will only make Russia stronger. If there is a cease fire it would give Ukraine more time to build an airforce and ground forces to ensure that Russia could not restart their invasion.
Ukraine may have to give up their claim to Crimea to get Russia to withdraw from the other occupied parts of their country. But that is better than a continued futile charge against dug in Russian forces, with huge losses for little gain.
The red line the Russians drew about Ukrainian NATO membership could not have been clearer. This will end in WWIII before it ends in full NATO membership. Any Polish crossing into Ukraine, with or without NATO concurrence, fast starts WWIII. No NATO and respect for the Minsk Agreements would have negated the necessity of any of this. Too late for that now. Donbas is gone.
They lost 30% of their equipment in two weeks! Both sides are agreeing on this. 75% of that overall 30% was the best, newest stuff NATO had given them. You’d best lose those rose colored glasses.
OK
You’re joking, right?
One observes that Oryx is 1) a Netherlands-based web site run by to amateurs, 2) was the primary first citation by "speedyintexas" for months as his enthusiasts cheered and detractors noted. One also notes that this Freeper is not posting the daily Oryx anymore for some reason.
One observes that Oryx's "contact" page shows no snail-mail address, but only a Gmail and Twitter contact.
Source: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/p/contact.html
Their Facebook link goes to their North Korea blog. And they -- -- operate a YouTube channel, "Oryx Blog. Authoring: The Armed Forces of North Korea, on the path of Songun." 13 Videos and ~60K views since 2014.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqUJaJJWQusy1hvBQXrV3w/videos
Wiki says: "Oryx, or Oryxspioenkop, is a Dutch open-source intelligence (OSINT) defence analysis website, and warfare research group. It is run by Stijn Mitzer and Joost Oliemans."
And "On 19 June 2023, Oryx announced that the blog would be ended on 1 October 2023. In the statement posted on Twitter, Oryx explained that the blog had been created a decade earlier "out of boredom", and that the project – which had been conducted "in our free time" and without any pay – had turned into an "all-consuming project" that had not resulted in any jobs and which "just doesn't make me happy anymore".[21] In a follow-up statement, Oryx clarified that the list covering losses in Russia's invasion of Ukraine would continue to be updated until the end of the war by long-time contributor Jakub Janovsky and the OSINT group WarSpotting."
One learns they post in "English (primary), Turkish, Japanese and Afrikaans."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oryx_(website)
As to "WarSpotting," one reads on their site: "Can your data be trusted? No it can't. Photos can be forged or misattributed. On top of that amount of photos available online nowhere near reflects actual losses. Even so, it might still be closer to reality than any claims being made by any official across the board." Source: https://ukr.warspotting.net/about/
One notes additionally that their address refers to the UK. And yet they publish in two languages: English and Ukrainian. So the above quote is rendered also: "Вашим даним можна довіряти? Ні, не можна. Фото можуть бути підроблені або розпізнані помилково. До того ж сукупність фото, що доступні онлайн, не відображають реальних втрат повною мірою. Але навіть не зважаючи на ці недоліки, наші дані можуть бути ближчими до реальності, ніж ті чи інші офіційні заяви."
Source: https://ukr.warspotting.net/uk/about/
From them, one finds podcasts as well: "Analyst sheds light on Ukraine and challenges in OSINT"
Source: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/analyst-sheds-light-on-ukraine-and-challenges-in-osint/
So the overall game is pass-through. As was commented to you: "Well, let's look at what the actual New York Times article says, rather than through the TASS filter...." What the ACTUAL NY Times article says quotes Oryx in the Netherlands. "Well, let's look at what the actual New York Times article says, rather than through the TASS filter,,,," So believe Oryx because the NY Times passes through the information.
But recall the comment from an Oryx-related fellow as cited above -- "Can your data be trusted? No it can't."
Then think of the Pelosi advice about the so-called "Wrap up smear." Fact-checked in years of articles and "taken out of context" and all, it is "you have the press write about it. And then you say, everybody is writing about this charge."
So because it's in the NY Times.... From Oryx in the Netherlands. And furthered by Ukrainian, as well as other languages, It comes to this, in the words of these "experts."
"Can your data be trusted? No it can't. Photos can be forged or misattributed. On top of that amount of photos available online nowhere near reflects actual losses. Even so, it might still be closer to reality than any claims being made by any official across the board."
Might be. Could be. Claims and claims being made.
I validate your "I always question inflated casualty figures from both sides." Wise.
Same. The US has its own problems. Number one, our border.
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