Posted on 01/05/2024 2:38:32 PM PST by Reno89519
Listen Jim, if you insist on your interpretation, this nation might as well be gone, because you are opening the nation to real danger by limiting it to just born here as the qualification.
Those people born here to parents who have not yet become citizens, were always naturalized along with their parents. Once the parents became citizens, their children were Natural Born Citizens.
Nothing I can say will make you change your mind, but I am very sure that the Founding Fathers of this nation would be quite upset that are definition of NBC has become so lax as to be worthless. We might as just as well allow anyone who is in this country to become President regardless of their status, because that is exactly what you are advocating for, I why I adamantly disagree with you.
Original understanding of constitutional ambiguity comes from a good-faith research into what NBC meant at the time of ratification, not what the understanding in 2024.
Apparently the Ark Court didn’t agree with your assessment of the original understanding of NBC.
If you can cite a part of the opinion that you can specifically challenge as not original understanding with supporting evidence. I’d love to hear it.
Nevertheless, the Ark opinion is the Law of Land according to the U.S. Constitution, Art. IV, Sec. 4, and, thus, Vivek is legally an NBC.
Balderdash. You seem to think the presidency is an easy cushy job. That is laughable to be sure.
He had one of the best economies, and accomplished many things, even though both political parties were against him. If that weren't bad enough there is an illegal creation within our government that is referred to as The Deep State, consisting of unelected bureaucrats who are unaccountable to "We The People".
I'm sorry to say that you are thinking that everything is normal, and that Trump should have been like a normal president. We didn't elect him to play footsie with these criminals in control. He didn't take on the job to be a "normal" president. If you have no children, grandchildren etc. then I guess you do not need to see the realities facing this nation, and thus you do not need to understand why we went outside the political parties, but worked within one, because getting a person elected who has never held a political office, is not an easy task. Our one saving grace was that Hillary was absolutely despised by the citizens who vote Democrat, Republican, & Independent. But Donald Trump also brought out those who never vote.
Can you say, without a shadow of a doubt, that the Lord played no part in his being elected?
Donald John Trump was reelected, but both political parties were willing to cheat to remove him, not because he sowed chaos as you claimed, but because Donald John Trump was after the crooks on unelected bureaucrats, and the members who make up the Uni-party.
I think the Lord actually compelled Donald John Trump to be open & honest about his intentions with regards to the criminals. The reason I believe, was to show the people just how bad these people really are. They would not repent, they would double down on maintaining their control. Enriching themselves at the expense of others. Power tends to create corruption. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
They wanted, and continue to want, absolute power. If not for themselves, then for someone who will extend them some forms of power. Because there are higher ups who control one heck of a lot of power, but they desire even more power.
They are the unholy ones you should worry about. Trump is also fighting them. Trump has always identified with the common man, much more than he identifies with other billionaires. That alone should tell you that the claims of him being a narcissist are remarks intended to disparage him. You do not know the man personally, so you are believing that which is being said about him. Sadly, you accept that as gospel, which is what makes it easy for you to say, this proves he is a narcissist. It actually doesn't but you want it t be true, that you see it as proof that he is.
Not because he enjoys what people say, but because it keeps his name front & center. Which at this point in time is one of his only ways to stay front & center with something other than the continuous lawfare he is being subjected to. Try listening to what he has to say policy wise, not what he tweets etc. The vast majority of that is Kabuki Theater.
None so blind as those who refuse to see. For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
Apparently you are still blinded, and therefore can't see what is coming out into the open on almost a daily basis.
It's way past time for you to start seeing, instead of holding on to the beliefs we all held about our nation. Our nation is no longer the nation we were born into.
Did the Lord bring forth Abraham Lincoln to finally end slavery in this nation he had helped to create? Perhaps Abe never even intended to end slavery, though he most decidedly was committed to not continuing its growth.
Come on Friend, wake up, Donald John Trump no more wants to be President than do you want him to be, which you have made abundantly clear. But he has been willing to sacrifice everything to return this nation back to "We The People".
If you remember your history lessons, when Ben Franklin emerged from crafting the Constitution, he was asked what they had created. He replied a Representative Republic if you can keep it. Well, we have lost that Representative Republic. Have you been asleep as to what has transpired since the election theft of 2020?
I ask, because you seem to be fast sleep with regards as to what is happening.
Perhaps you even believe that Biden is fighting for Democracy. The only problem is we were a Representative Republic. The founding fathers did not want a Democracy, because a Democracy is 3 wolves and a chicken deciding what is for dinner. In other words, mob rules. We are seeing what that mafia like mob does when they rule. It will only get worse.
So wake up and fight to get out nation back. Whether you like Trump or not, he is the one who will actually try to do that, but he needs our help. None of the other also rans would even dare to take on the criminals. Instead they will join then and steal for themselves, from "We The People", and this nation will be lost to evil.
But hey, if none of that matters to you, by all means trash Trump, instead of helping him to help us. Because that is the stupid course to take.
Don't be one of the stupid citizens.
Instead, be one of the fighters that this country needs. If she is to be saved for our children, but also for humanity around the world. Because once we fall, there will be no nation fighting for humanity. The world will be evil around the entire globe.
There will be nowhere to run to, and nowhere to hide, from the evil.
The other thing is to include prayer in that fight.
BTW, much of the chaos you saw, was not caused by Trump. It was caused by the criminals in control. Trump did nothing, except signal to the criminals, that he was coming after them. They provided all of the chaos. But you can't even see that fact. Instead, you buy the propaganda.
Part of that reason is because you do not want to acknowledge the truth of what is transpiring. It's discomforting to see some of the people you used to admire in their true light.
I was told about what we are seeing more than 20 years ago. It was all so unbelievable that I dismissed it. I can no longer dismiss what I was being told, because I am seeing it unfold.
No, as I have said all along, they did not rule he was a natural born citizen, just that he was a citizen based upon the language used n the amendment. Nowhere dd they mention him being a Natural Born Citizen, just that he was a citizen.
Sorry, your gaslighting is not going to work.
You seem to be responding to things I didn’t say.
HE invites chaos through his actions and his spoken word. Did he sign a multi-trillion dollar bill that started the inflation going? Did he keep Fauci on and follow his advice? Does he do weird things like mock vets for being injured as a P.O.W., or say nonsensical things like water ruins magnets? When the citizenry starts focusing on his idiotic statements, we’re not fighting the good fight, are we. He constantly needs to have his statements explained by his reliable sycophants. The chaos is coming from him.
I never said, or thought, everything is normal. Your assumptions are revealing.
I never said God isn’t involved. I said we can’t know what His plan is regarding the leadership of this country.
If Trump were capable of taking on the corruption, why didn’t he do it in his first term? It’s always “But OTHER people were mean and wouldn’t let him!” He was more than willing to work with any Dem or corrupt GOP if they were nice to him. Remember when he said he was impressed with Pelosi, that he likes her a lot? Or when he said he couldn’t go after Newsom because “He was always very nice to me”. A real fighter you’ve got there.
I don’t simply believe things said about Trump, as you suggest, I follow his own words and his own actions.
I am not “asleep” to what is happening. I’m seeing much clearer than you seem to be.
I have never, nor will I ever, vote for a democrat. You’re wrong AGAIN.
I know we are a Representive Republic, and right now the Republic seems to be left-leaning. THAT’s the problem. The hearts and minds of the citizenry have been turned over to blindness of truth and goodness. Trump would never be able to influence hearts and minds to cherish life over death, to choose good over evil. He’s incapable, because he lacks integrity.
Thank you for taking the time to call me stupid, asleep, ignorant, a dem. If telling the truth is “trashing” your leader, you might want to rethink whom you follow.
Your reading comprehension needs work, because I never said, or thought everything was normal. I said, we didn't hire him to be a normal president. We hired him to fight the corruption and return this nation to its original founding purpose. No wonder se are blind to what is happening i this nation.
Again. He didn't invite chaos at all. You buy into the propaganda and the lies written about him constantly. The press would either put words in his mouth that he didn't utter, or they would omit words that fundamentally changed what he had said.
If I were to trump lies about you, misquote you, & paint you in the worst possible light possible, you would be viewed as a person of chaos. So, you are not even a critical thinker who researches for themselves what was really stated. You merely took someone else's words on him being an agent of chaos. The propaganda flows heavily, when the apparatus feels threatened, and they have been & continue to be, threatened by him. That is why they threaten him with 700 years of prison, destruction of the business he helped to grow, which his father had built.
I never said God isn’t involved. I said we can’t know what His plan is regarding the leadership of this country.
You trashed Trump for retweeting the video, claiming he was a narcissist. You obviously did not think Trump's leadership was the Lord's plan, because you complained that trump didn't act like a normal president. Either you don't believe the Lord has any involvement when it comes to Trump, but you certainly have come to a conclusion as to what a president would act like if the Lord were involved.
You are no making stuff up as your retort, not even realizing just howe much you contradict your own declared beliefs.
If Trump were capable of taking on the corruption, why didn’t he do it in his first term?
There you go again, assuming that the task of president is an easy position, and that a president is all powerful, and therefore should be able to accomplish any task they are trying to correct.
First off, a president is the head of only one branch of the three branches of our government. But the primary reason he wasn't able to clean up the Levithan in his first term, is that he underestimated just how wide & deep the swamp had become. But also, you have to gather evidence, as well as, get players to expose themselves as being government gangsters. That fact that you have to ask these questions says volumes about you.
Did he sign a multi-trillion dollar bill that started the inflation going?
Why yes he did, but it was because states were closing down their economies not allowing people to work whose jobs were deemed as bein unessential. Would you have been happier had he allowed many men, women & children to die of starvation, or been thrown out into the streets? But inflation did not start under his presidency. Are you now making excuses for Biden?
Just for the record, because the Constitution speaks nothing about overriding the power of states, but it does explicitly state; any power not enumerated to the Federal Government in the Constitution, reverts to the states.
Are you suggesting that Trump had the power to reopen states, or did that responsibility lie with the state per the Constitution?
Did he keep Fauci on and follow his advice?
Was Fauci, the highest paid Civil Servant, not the Director of NIAID? Do you even know what NIAID stands for?
Isn't that why Fauci was there in the first place, and was the highest paid Civil Servant, to provide advice about a virus? Fauci's advice was to not shut down travel from China, and to not limit travel from any place. He didn't follow that advice from Fauci, did he. Fauci also said that other use drugs, such as hydroxychloroquine were dangerous and not to be used. But Trump told the FDA to allow hydroxychloroquine to be made available to all American who requested it, but the FDA Director, Scott Gottlieb overrode his request and made it only available to those admitted to hospitals. While appointed by Trump, Trump most likely was given the name of Scott Gottlieb to head up the FDA. He has a great resume, but resume do not show a person's character
From your previous pos, you said:
Where as DeSantis, even though he’s not perfect either, knows how D.C. works, understands national security, foreign policy, the law, the Constitution, is pro-life, anti-child mutilation, and truly understands the battle we’re in..
Gee, Trump avoided getting us into another protracted war during his term, handled Kim Jog Un, and developed inroads to peace in the Middle East, opened up the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem.
You also asked in the previous post by you the following:
Can you tell me why you “absolutely believe Trump is the person the Lord chose...”?
You really know nothing about Trump, or his religious beliefs
Also in that previous post by you, you said the following:
He didn’t last time. His term just resulted in chaos.
Chaos looks like the first term of Biden which is sadly still on going, not Trump's term. But the press repeatedly claimed it was chaos, but surprisingly, they are mostly silent about the chaos of the Biden term. Hmmm, why is that?
You too are silent on the Biden chaos. But you praise DeSantis, because you think he is a fighter. He has never taken up a fight on his own. All of his fights have been done to promote himself. He cried for Trump's support, which Trump provided, but then like Judas, he quickly turns against Trump when his ego is stroked to rise higher in the world of politics. Those promoting him, are those Republicans who are referred to as RINOs, because they are really members of the Uni-party which has been selling this nation down the river while fleecing the American tax payers as well. No thanks, these people are not for America or her citizens.
Thank you for taking the time to call me stupid, asleep, ignorant, a dem.
Again you have trouble with reading comprehension. The only thing is I uttered was that you appear to be asleep. I warned you you to not be a stupid person. I asked if you perhaps also believed that Biden was saving Democracy? I never accused you of voting for any Democrat whatsoever.
But I have come to the conclusion that you are a moderate, because like the leftists, you refer to people like myself, a conservative, as right-wing, and it sure seems to me that you harbor the same level as disdain.
Moderates have no real convictions, which is why they are fence-sitters swaying to the whims of the prevailing winds.
Works for me.
Oh look, it’s the Command Sergeant Major of the Trump Derangement Syndrome Battalion, burning up some more of FR’s bandwidth.
Do you ever notice how few TDS’ers you can find on ANY of Free Republic’s donor lists?
Riding dirty are we?
The country is on fire and by the way, did you hear that Donald Trump puts ketchup on his STEAKS?
Fantastic message of your gift President Donald Trump! ✅
“Vocatio”
✅
All that proves Jim, is that critical thinking skills have been lost to a dumbed-down society. You claim that Bork contended that they are NBC, yet you have failed to provide me with information that collaborates that claim.
For you, and Robert Bork, are rewarding criminals over those who immigrate to this nation using the legal process.
Granted their children played no part in that criminal act, but they should not be rewarded by virtue of the criminal act their parent(s) used to gain entry into this nation.
We really do not have enough information about the China man's case that the Supreme Court made a ruling on to determine if it was a sound or foolish ruling.
But common sense dictates that at best Nikki Haley & Vivek Ramaswamy hold the same type of citizenship that their parents were eventually granted, naturalized citizenship, not Natural Born citizens.
Now, you mat think I'm old-fashioned & out of date, but I believe the Constitution must be upheld. Want to change the common sense interpretation of the meaning of NBC, then create an amendment and change it as the constitution requires.
In Perkins v. Elg, 99 F. 2d 408, Court of Appeals, Dist. of Columbia Circuit 1938, the Court of Appeals noted as part of the basis for their decision that...
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 18 S. Ct. 456, 42 L. Ed. 890 [found that] {W]hen the Constitution was adopted the people of the United States were the citizens of the several States for whom and for whose posterity the government was established. Each of them was a citizen of the United States at the adoption of the Constitution, and all free persons thereafter born within one of the several States became by birth citizens of the State and of the United States.
It appears the Supreme Court in Elg (1939) agrees.
What matters is what the ratifiers of the Constitution considered a natural born citizen (NBC) was. Again, the Constitution is properly applied as written and ORIGINALLY UNDERSTOOD and intended.
The Supreme Court decisions based soundly on the good-faith finding of original understanding of NBC in the Constitution is, therefore, legal precedent concerning NBC. Thus, Vivek should be considered an NBC.
Common sense dictates that as the definition of insanity.
Not only does it place the children of these invaders above those who followed the law of this land to become citizens, it places them on par with an actual Natural Born Citizen.
The Supreme Court riled incorrectly, as it has done on a number of issues since that incorrect ruling. Everyone at the time the amendment was passed, ratified & became law, that it was addressing those children born of people who were brought to this country against their will & desire that subsequently created offspring, their offspring were indeed to be considered as NBC.
There was indeed a Chinese slave trade/human trafficking that was ongoing during that period, especially on the west coast state of California which had its base in San Francisco. Now if the Chinese man could prove that he was a product of that slave trade/human trafficking, then he would indeed have passed the test, and the Supreme Court ruling was justified.
This issue was never a problem, until the Democrats started using the 14th amendment as justification to create more citizens to become their constituents, by making the argument that the 14th amendment was really granting citizenship via jus soli, citing that the UK, Canada & Australia have always provided citizenship on this basis, and there are now 33 nations that recognize jus sole.
Do the all recognize the children of illegal invaders who give birth in those countries grant citizenship to the children? That I do not know the answer to that question, or the question as to what other considerations may exist in granting citizenship upon their children by virtue of being born there. We know that the U.S. does not recognize the children of American citizens when those citizens have not reside in the U.S. for 14 years, unless those parents were on assignment overseas in service for the U.S. government.
But jus soli is not extended to the parents. They should either be deported & the child taken for adoption, unless the parents want to take the child with them. But regardless, these children are still not NBC, even if the parents were here legally, but had not attained formal U.S. citizenship via the naturalization process. Their children are granted citizenship, but they are still not viewed as NBC.
Over your approach, I’ll take Judge Robert Bork. the leading constitutional scholar of his time, and his definition of sound constitutional application: apply the Constitution as written and originally understood and intended. I think the Court would (or should) as well.
Your opinion is subjective and not based on the Constitution as written and originally understood and intended but on “old fashioned common sense.”
NBC is a legal matter and since Court precedent on this issue is based on sound constitutional application (rare in the 20th century), precedent should win the day in Court over your subjective opinion. See you then.
You keep mentioning Bork, but you won’t provide me with what you are referring to. Without that I am left with your insistence that he stands with the interpretation.
Then, I adamantly disagree with him also, if he indeed said what you say he said.
The Constitution only states the NBC requirement for the office of President & Vice President, but states the qualification for all other offices as only being a citizen, because you can be a citizen without being a NBC citizen.
All citizens are afforded the full protections offered under the Constitution. Jus soli citizens fall into the sub classification of citizen that is not recognized as being that of NBC citizens.
Thus, they are prohibited from occupying those two offices.
The same holds true for Ted Cruz as well. His mother further destroyed him ever qualifying to become either President or Vice President of the U.S., by giving him Canadian birth right citizenship while ignoring his American citizenship rights with her being an American citizen, while his father was clearly still a Cuban citizen.
Freed black slaves who were granted citizenship by the 14th Amendment, were not granted NBC status. However, it meant all of their children born after ratification of the 14th Amendment made them NBC citizens.
You see, if the government has to grant citizenship, then those people were never recognized as citizens until granted, which is exactly what is happening with illegals who drop children in the U.S.
Had it not been for the government recognizing their being citizens by virtue of jus soli ruling of the Supreme Court, they would have not been citizens. However, because their parents are not citizens, they are not NBC citizens. It's common sense Jim.
While Robert Bork may have been a brilliant man, it becomes obvious that if he held the beliefs you state he held, then Robert Bork lacked common sense. If he indeed came to the conclusion you said he did, that babies dropped by illegal invaders, or even legal immigrants before citizenship was attained, were NBC, and that the Founders intended them to be considered as NBC, retroactively, destroying the whole reason for specifying the requirement of NBC in the first place.
People needing government to grant them citizenship, can not be, and never will be recognized as possessing NBC status.
Most brilliant people I have met in my lifetime, all seem to lack common sense. It's almost as if common sense made no sense to them at all.
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