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The "happy talk" of the Ukraine supporters (almost all of the MSM, Democratic pundits, Leftists, NeoCons, RINOs and Zeepers) is finally giving way to some more realistic assessment.

No greater a proprietor of conventional wisdom the the Times U.K. is now talking openly about the fall of Kiev.

It's on the table, and this is only one of several MSM sources that have now, finally, abandoned the "happy talk" narratives that have polluted the information available about the conflict.

Some progress in admitting the obvious has been made, but most Ukraine fan-bois have a long way to go still.

For those hitting the Times U.K. paywall the full article is also available in archive:

https://archive.is/uVjQr#selection-2709.0-2735.552

1 posted on 04/06/2024 2:17:04 PM PDT by Vlad0
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To: Vlad0

Biden limited oil distribution, exploration and production. The price doubled. Russia and Iran launched their adventures within a year.


30 posted on 04/06/2024 3:06:47 PM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Vlad0

Biden will have more flexibility after his reelection.


33 posted on 04/06/2024 3:10:28 PM PDT by McGruff (Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up - Barack Obama)
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To: Vlad0

After the fall of Kiev, and “Peace is given a chance” the Ukrainian Killing Fields will begin. Similar to what happened in Cambodia in 1975 when the communist “liberators murdered millions.

Putrid is a wannabe Stalin. He will finish the job that Stalin did with his engineered terror famine:

https://youtu.be/PsM3YoPiloE?t=7

Wait and see.


34 posted on 04/06/2024 3:18:03 PM PDT by Uncle Lonny
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To: Vlad0
The Russians don't and never wanted Kiev. But, if we and NATO persist in prolonging the war, they may be forced to take it.

Ukraine has no chance of regaining any lost territory. The longer the war goes on, the more territory Ukraine will lose.

38 posted on 04/06/2024 3:24:45 PM PDT by Kazan (Megan C. bet me, lost the bet and was humiliated!)
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To: Vlad0
"Without new US military assistance, Ukrainian ground forces may not be able to hold the line against a relentless Russian military.”

US military aid won't make a bit of difference. Ukraine has severe manpower shortage that can't be solved.

39 posted on 04/06/2024 3:26:08 PM PDT by Kazan (Megan C. bet me, lost the bet and was humiliated!)
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To: Vlad0

NATO will support western oblasts of Ukraine.


42 posted on 04/06/2024 3:34:22 PM PDT by linMcHlp
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To: Vlad0

It’s time for Bidenskyyyyyyyyyyy to send all late night vomit comedians to Ukraine to build a last line of defense to stop the Russkis.


44 posted on 04/06/2024 3:43:24 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (I can't wait until the "media" is printing headlines like, "Trump Reverses Biden-era Policy.")
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To: Vlad0
Contrary to the predominant view that this is a perpetual “frozen conflict”, with neither side able to win a decisive advantage, the front line is bitterly contested and there is a real risk of Ukrainian forces being pushed back.

The Ukraine war is a perpetual "frozen conflict" precisely as the American Civil War was a perpetual frozen conflict. When one side can run the other out of men or materiel, it is frozen until it isn't. Then the lines begin to crack. And then the lines collapse suddenly.

Only a year ago, it was all very different. The hope then was of a Ukrainian spring offensive that would reclaim territory.

The only thing different a year ago was the optimism of the propaganda. Ukraine's situation a year ago was a hopeless as it is now. They were just in an earlier stage of losing.

Without new US military assistance, Ukrainian ground forces may not be able to hold the line against a relentless Russian military.”

With new U.S. military assistance, Ukraine ground forces may lose more men, and suffer greater destruction. The end result will not change.

The US Treasury secretary, Janet Yellen, has issued several warnings that Ukraine is running out of money, while urging Congress to pass the aid bill that is stuck amid legislative infighting.

Janet Yellen is the Secretary of the Treasury for the United States. She should spend more time on the trillion dollars of debt being taken on every hundred days by the U.S. When we have no debt and a budget surplus, the Secretary of the Treasury can worry about printing more currency so she can play patron saint of hopeless causes.

Would the allies send troops to defend Kyiv?

Let us hope not. Why would these "allies" wait for the rest of Ukraine to fall and then defend Kiev?

President Macron has clearly sensed the danger and is trying to steer the West towards a more muscular approach by raising the possibility of ground troops.

Being French, President Macron can teach a more muscular approach to surrendering in the face of certain defeat. There is nothing stopping President Macron from sending his own ground troops in there now. Surely he has the unanimous support of the French people on that one.

When will the message be finally understood that peace for European populations is guaranteed only by strength? When Ukraine falls and Putin moves on to menacing the Baltics, Poland, Finland, Sweden or Norway?

Oh noes, the domino theory. Did we win or lose the first war of the dominoes? Did the world end, or is it still here? Whatever happened to the dominoes?

52 posted on 04/06/2024 4:24:17 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: Vlad0

I don’t think Putin wants to have to occupy Kyiv.


53 posted on 04/06/2024 4:37:06 PM PDT by FreedomForce
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To: Vlad0

It’s Kiev. And the sooner, the better.


54 posted on 04/06/2024 4:48:42 PM PDT by Trumpisourlastchance
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To: Vlad0

Ukraine can not win the war - if NATO intervenes to save face, it will start WWIII.


56 posted on 04/06/2024 5:12:47 PM PDT by chuckr (Barack Hussein Obama - A Legend In His Own Mind)
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To: Vlad0; Zhang Fei
To most western journalists the war in Ukraine is a soap box for their existing issues. This is not Iraq where CNN is embedded in both sides.

"It is July and the Russian army is at the gates of Kyiv" even possible? If Russia can attempt this during this coming July, there was nothing stopping them from trying last July in 2023, or in July 2022 when the invasion was stalling.

Losses count for both sides. Ukrainian military losses are bad. Russian military losses are far worse. What I find more than a little disturbing is the cognitive dissonance that prevents people from seeing a very basic reality: Russian losses have kept them from winning. If Russia was inflicting greater losses than they were having, they would have won. There is no way this will drastically change in the next few months. The last time Russia made a battalion sized attack was at Tonenke last week. Out of 36 tanks and 12 APCs, 20 vehicles were destroyed. Both sides have sufficient ISTAR (intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance) that any attempt to mass large forces to engage in force is always detected in advance. That gives the other side time to prepare their own forces and artillery, drones, and other weapons. Massing more than a dozen vehicles, their crews, infantry, other support without getting noticed is impossible.

Both sides have built up their defense in depth in their own way. Russia still has the Surovikin and Wagner lines. Ukraine has its defenses in depth and heavy use of cheap reconnaissance drones. The limitations on both sides mean large scale Cold War scenarios are not going to happen, or Russia would have tried it since the initial invasion stalled.

For those that haven't noticed, Russia has not won and Ukraine has not lost. Russia losses are so high and Ukrainian defense are so effective less than 100 square miles has changed sides over the last year and a half. That includes Bakhmut and Avdiivka, battles which were cheered as ending the war for Russia when they did not.

Attacking Kyiv by definition will be a major offensive operation. Russia will have to mass forces to attack, going up against 2 years of built up defenses, drones, artillery, and Ukrainian defenders expecting it eventually. It is not only Ukraine that has to worry about another attack on Kyiv. It is Russia that has to worry about risking attacking Kyiv a second time, and losing.

57 posted on 04/06/2024 5:39:59 PM PDT by Widget Jr (🇺🇦 Слава Україні! 🇺🇦 🛇 CCCP 2.0 🛇)
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