No greater a proprietor of conventional wisdom the the Times U.K. is now talking openly about the fall of Kiev.
It's on the table, and this is only one of several MSM sources that have now, finally, abandoned the "happy talk" narratives that have polluted the information available about the conflict.
Some progress in admitting the obvious has been made, but most Ukraine fan-bois have a long way to go still.
For those hitting the Times U.K. paywall the full article is also available in archive:
I don’t see it happening it will be propped up
The war will go on as long as there is money to be laundered.
Our own border has collapsed. Fix it.
Are egg prices still high in Russia as reported by the western media and zeepers?
If so Ukraine is winning
Do you mean “Keeve?”
It’s all over but the crying.
There was never a chance that Russia would lose this war with a country right on its border. Ukraine was destroyed for nothing (other than advancing US interests by driving a wedge between Europe and Russia).
The Dnipro River protects Ukraine in the South. But Kyiv is vulnerable if the Russians break through defensive fortifications in the east.
The EU, their Davos masters and the US deep state are prepared to literally fight to the last Ukrainian. Average Ukrainians have no say, or agency in this situation.
There’s still a lot of Ukrainians left for them to muster. Its far too early to talk about “collapse.”
Sorry. DILLIGAS still.
Gee Whiz, the Fall of Eastern Europe's Epstein Island Laundromat.
So Sad.
Russia attempts to take over the city of Kiev will mean a bloody guerilla war in the streets. It would be another Stalingrad but they would be the Germans.
The author is saying the Ukraine will lose without foreign supplies, just as Russia would have been defeated by Germany without US and British supplies and Allied attacks on Germany, including air raids that razed big chunks of German cities. For instance, the US sent 14,000 airplanes and 13,000 tanks to Russia, including ~5,000 of the Airacobra, a fighter first made in 1941.
“I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war,” Stalin said. “The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war.”
Nikita Khrushchev offered the same opinion.
“If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war,” he wrote in his memoirs. “One-on-one against Hitler’s Germany, we would not have withstood its onslaught and would have lost the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any written traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view several times in conversations with me.”
, the United States provided the Soviet Union with more than 400,000 jeeps and trucks, 14,000 aircraft, 8,000 tractors and construction vehicles, and 13,000 battle tanks.
However, the real significance of Lend-Lease for the Soviet war effort was that it covered the “sensitive points” of Soviet production — gasoline, explosives, aluminum, nonferrous metals, radio communications, and so on, says historian Boris Sokolov.
“In a hypothetical battle one-on-one between the U.S.S.R and Germany, without the help of Lend-Lease and without the diversion of significant forces of the Luftwaffe and the German Navy and the diversion of more than one-quarter of its land forces in the fight against Britain and the United States, Stalin could hardly have beaten Hitler,” Sokolov wrote in an essay for RFE/RL’s Russian Service.]
I don’t think Putin has any interest in taking Kyiv. His demands have not changed since the war began.
I don’t see why this can’t be resolved with an out of war settlement.
We bought Louisiana from the French without a shot fired same with Alaska and the Russians. They sold because because they knew they could never really secure their territories.
Ukraine has no chance of ever getting their southern provinces back or of reclaiming Crimea. They are throwing good money and blood at a lost cause. AND its our money.
Ukraine should make a deal while they still can. Sell the territory to Russia. Doesn’t have to be cash since they are broke. Get low price guaranties for energy and other tangible benefits or whatever the Ukrainians think they need.
I believe Russia would jump at the chance just to improve their world image and end sanctions. Unfortunately the EU and the US would do all they can to block it. For some stupid reason they want a conflict with NATO and Russia.
Kiev fell when Crimea fell under The Magic Negro....
Ukraine ping
The author is saying the Ukraine will lose without foreign supplies, just as Russia would have been defeated by Germany without US and British supplies and Allied attacks on Germany, including air raids that razed big chunks of German cities. For instance, the US sent 14,000 airplanes and 13,000 tanks to Russia, including ~5,000 of the Airacobra, a fighter first made in 1941.
“I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war,” Stalin said. “The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war.”
Nikita Khrushchev offered the same opinion.
“If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war,” he wrote in his memoirs. “One-on-one against Hitler’s Germany, we would not have withstood its onslaught and would have lost the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any written traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view several times in conversations with me.”
, the United States provided the Soviet Union with more than 400,000 jeeps and trucks, 14,000 aircraft, 8,000 tractors and construction vehicles, and 13,000 battle tanks.
However, the real significance of Lend-Lease for the Soviet war effort was that it covered the “sensitive points” of Soviet production — gasoline, explosives, aluminum, nonferrous metals, radio communications, and so on, says historian Boris Sokolov.
“In a hypothetical battle one-on-one between the U.S.S.R and Germany, without the help of Lend-Lease and without the diversion of significant forces of the Luftwaffe and the German Navy and the diversion of more than one-quarter of its land forces in the fight against Britain and the United States, Stalin could hardly have beaten Hitler,” Sokolov wrote in an essay for RFE/RL’s Russian Service.]
Russians aren’t interested in seizing Kyvv. It is not a military objective.
So maybe the happy talk has ended, but the insanity remains. After deindustrializing in order to go all in on the finance biz, the West no longer has the capability to match Russia, or China, bomb for bomb, drone for drone, and plane for plane.
Besides Ukraine, we have commitments in Israel, a need to beef up our presence in the East China Sea, and a need to replenish our own arms reserves in case of future aggression against us.
Even if somehow $60 billion of weapons will help, how many Ukrainians are left to wield those weapons? The Ukrainians have done well in creating tough defensive works that have slowed any Russian advance. They have also done well to replace planes with ever more sophisticated drones that can protect their positions, harass the Russian troops, and inflict damage on the Russian economy.
Still the longer the war lasts without full NATO support, the more likely the Russians will be knocking on the door to Kiev. And if Ukraine ever does get full NATO support, then it's time to put on about 12 inches thick of high SPF sun block and dig out your old welding glasses.