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Yet another good read. I hope that you all are keeping up with this.
1 posted on 12/31/1969 4:00:00 PM PST by vannrox (MyEMail)
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To: Euro-American Scum, 2banana, Lanman, KirklandJunc45Auto, DCBryan1, bang_list,sirgawain,tion, tame,

"...Thus, the right envisioned was not only the right to be armed, but to be armed at a level equal to the government..."


2 posted on 12/31/1969 4:00:00 PM PST by vannrox (MyEMail)
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To: vannrox
nice post.
12 posted on 12/31/1969 4:00:00 PM PST by Mason
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To: vannrox
thanks, bookmarked for later
knee deep in Klamath right now
13 posted on 12/31/1969 4:00:00 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: vannrox

"Our Second Amendment; What the colonies proposed, amended and passed between 1776 & 1791."

Like every other story, there has to be a beginning, and as far as I have found (with much help from the Second Amendment Law Library) the story begins with the Virginia Bill of Rights.

Virginia Bill of Rights
June 12, 1776


"13. That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

Pennsylvania appears to have been the first colony to have used the phrase "A right to bear arms"

The Address and Reasons of Dissent of the Minority of the Convention of Pennsylvania
To Their Constituents

Pennsylvania Packet and Daily Advertiser
18 December 1787

7. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and their own state, or the United States, or for the purpose of killing game; and no law shall be passed for disarming the people or any of them, unless for crimes committed, or real danger of public injury from individuals; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up: and that the military shall be kept under strict subordination to and be governed by the civil powers.

Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New Hampshire
June 21, 1788.

"Twelfth, Congress shall never disarm any Citizen unless such as are or have been in Actual Rebellion. —

Amendments Proposed by the Virginia Convention
June 27, 1788

"Seventeenth, That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated Militia composed of the body of the people trained to arms is the proper, natural and safe defence of a free State. That standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided, as far as the circumstances and protection of the Community will admit; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to and governed by the Civil power."

Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New York: July 26, 1788.[1]

"That the People have a right to keep and bear Arms; that a well regulated Militia, including the body of the People capable of bearing Arms, is the proper, natural and safe defence of a free State;"


Editor's Note: The North Carolina Convention met from July 21 through August 4, 1788, but after debate agreed only to neither ratify or reject the Constitution, but did adopt a resolution containing a Declaration of Rights and a list of proposed Amendments to the Constitution on August 2, 1788. After the Constitution had been ratified by a sufficient number of states, the members of the convention reconvened and, apparently without further debate, ratified the Constitution November 21, 1789, and announced the Declaration below, which includes the resolution of August 2, 1788.


Ratification of the Constitution by the State of North Carolina
November 21, 1789.

"17th. That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural and safe defence of a free state. That standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to Liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided, as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by the civil power.

Amendments Offered in Congress by James Madison
June 8, 1789

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."

Amendments Reported by the Select Committee July 28, 1789

""A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but no person religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms."

Amendments Passed by the House of Representatives August 24, 1789

ARTICLE THE FIFTH.

"A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the People, being the best security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person."

Amendments Passed by the Senate September 9, 1789

ARTICLE THE FOURTH.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Amendments Agreed to After Conference and Proposed by Congress to the States September 25, 1789

"Article the fourth . . . A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Twelve amendments were proposed, and ten adopted, effective December 15, 1791. Those ten became known as the Bill of Rights, and their ratification is celebrated as Bill of Rights Day.

[Bill of Rights]

The conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added.

Article the fourth [Amendment II]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Another good article is: The Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights by David T. Hardy



19 posted on 12/31/1969 4:00:00 PM PST by Bob Evans
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To: vannrox
Fantastic read, thanks for the bump.
20 posted on 09/05/2001 12:37:10 PM PDT by coloradan
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To: vannrox
Yet another good read. I hope that you all are keeping up with this.
Dusting out the attic...this thread sure didn't get much attention. I keep on keeping on though. The tortoise and the hare.

If this van's rocking don't bother knocking

21 posted on 01/28/2002 10:52:16 PM PST by philman_36
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To: vannrox
A very scholarly work.

One might add, that the philosophy recognized by the author as pertaining to private arms, and a citizenry responsible for preserving their freedom, is the same philosophy of individual responsibility that made the American economic miracle materialize.

In every particular, the Founding Fathers trusted our future to responsible individuals. As we lose that sense of individual responsibility, we lose everything that made America unique. Since that original sense arose in a major sense from the actual experiences of the pre-Revolutionary Settler societies; once really lost, it is extremely unlikely that the urbanized multi-cultured, polyglot population of today, will ever recover it. The idiotic pursuit of restricted private arms closely parallels the overall assault upon our Cultural heritage.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

33 posted on 01/30/2002 2:21:20 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: vannrox
Bump and Bookmarked.
35 posted on 01/30/2002 2:27:38 PM PST by Double Tap
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To: vannrox
[5] See Don P. Kates, Jr., Handgun Prohibition and the Original Meaning of the Second Amendment, 82 Mich. L. Rev. 204, 207 (1983). The ACLU's summary of its national board's action at the June 14-15, 1980, meeting sets out the following policy considerations: The setting in which the Second Amendment was proposed and adopted demonstrates that the right to bear arms is a collective one existing only in the collective population of each state for the purpose of maintaining an effective state militia. The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation of efficiency of a well regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms.

The ACLU is resting their entire argument on Supreme Court rulings that do not exist. I usually offer a thousand dollars to any person who can cite a US Supreme Court decision that says this.
Anyone want to guess whether I'll ever write that check?

39 posted on 01/30/2002 2:58:04 PM PST by sig226
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To: vannrox
I would have sworn that I bumped this way back when.

Signed, dazed and confused.

5.56mm

43 posted on 01/31/2002 12:09:08 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: vannrox
Thank you for an excellent post. I very much appreciate the footnotes included. Bookmarked and printed.
48 posted on 02/03/2002 5:42:47 AM PST by M.K. Borders
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To: vannrox
Extraordinary scholarship. Bookmarked and filed. Will bump once a day or so to keep this in circulation.
54 posted on 02/03/2002 2:19:08 PM PST by facedown
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To: vannrox
bump
60 posted on 02/04/2002 7:24:44 AM PST by Mat_Helm
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To: vannrox
BUMP
61 posted on 02/04/2002 7:31:04 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: vannrox
Bump
62 posted on 02/04/2002 2:25:36 PM PST by facedown
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To: vannrox
BUMP
63 posted on 02/07/2002 6:30:48 AM PST by facedown
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To: vannrox
BTTT
64 posted on 02/08/2002 7:18:17 AM PST by facedown
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To: vannrox
BTTT
65 posted on 02/09/2002 6:31:13 AM PST by facedown
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To: vannrox
So... where is the three sentence summary??? Not that I don't often enjoy long posts. It's that I've only got a few hours here.
66 posted on 02/09/2002 6:37:21 AM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird
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To: vannrox
BTTT
67 posted on 02/09/2002 2:30:49 PM PST by facedown
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