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To: jude24, RnMomof7, Matchett-PI, peg the prophet, Uriel1975
[TRYING AGAIN WITH CORRECT FONT]

On the previous thread, you inquired about a couple of verses. In the post which follows, I will address the first of these, 1 Timothy 2:4.

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If you really want to see how 1 Timothy 2:4 fits the Calvinistic position, the first thing which I recommend you do is go back and read Uriel195's post on a previous thread, found at The Outpouring of the Holy Spirit #124.

Uriel1975's argument does not depend on the exegesis of the Greek word usually translated as "all" in our English language versions. (If you haven't worked through his post, please do so before continuing further.)

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Now, the point which I want to make about Uriel1975's argument is that it exactly fits the Calvinistic position. And it is the explanation offered for 1 Timothy 2:4 by a great many mainstream Calvinists, including Charles Spurgeon.

But why does it fit the Calvinistic position so well? It's because it fits the two distinctives of the Calvinistic position.

My point here is that Calvinism is not the doctrine of absolute predestination. Rather, Calvinism is the theological system which embraces both the doctrine of absolute predestination and the free offer of the gospel. These are two distinctives, not one.

At the risk of being tedious, let me point out that both the Arminian and the hyper-Calvinist maintain that these two distinctives are mutually exclusive. They maintain that true (absolute) predestination and a true (sincere) gospel offer can't both be true. This is presuppositional with them. (But it is a purely philosophical presupposition. They don't get it from the Bible. They just think they do. Their presupposition actually warps the way they read the Bible.)

What makes this mess so interesting is the fact that Arminians and hyper-Calvinists start with the same presupposition and wind up reaching different bottom-line conclusions! (The Arminian tries to use the free offer of the gospel to rule out true predestination, i.e., to argue that the Bible's "predestination" is just a matter of God's precognition with some kind of vague meddling by God thrown in. The hyper-Calvinist, on the other end of the spectrum, tries to use the fact of God's absolute predestination to rule out the free offer of the gospel, i.e., to argue that we have somehow misunderstood the verses which definitely do suggest that God makes a sincere offer of salvation.)

Well, I don't care if the Arminians and hyper-Calvinists can't believe that absolute predestination and the free offer are both true. They are both taught in the Bible--no doubt about it! And if they say this can't be correct, then I'll dare to point out that they sound like unbelieving Jews or Mormons. (The Jews say that the Oneness of God rules out the Threeness of God. But they're wrong; they don't even know the God of the Bible, and the fact that they call their God Jehovah means nothing. The Mormons, on the other hand, are polytheists who do not really believe in the One True God. They don't know the God of the Bible either; the fact that they worship a god whom they call "Jesus" means nothing.)

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My bottom-line point is that Calvinism is a Biblically balanced theology. This is why we Calvinists are not at all ashamed to say that 1 Timothy 2:4 is presenting the free offer of the gospel in the freest possible way. But it also why we refuse to read it in the stupid way the Arminians try to read it (i.e., pretending that the Lord Jesus is somehow at odds with the God of election!).

Perhaps the best way to appreciate Uriel1975's argument concerning 1 Timothy 2:4 is to look at what the Lord Himself said in John 6:37: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out."

Notice that the Lord is promising to save every single solitary person who comes to Him, i.e., everyone who exercises true faith in Him--necessarily including faith in the veracity of the Offer! Notice, furthermore, that the Lord Jesus is saying, in effect, that if God the Father were pleased to bring every single person in the world to His Son in saving faith, then the Lord would willingly receive and save every single one person in the world.

Ah, but the Lord also knew that this would not happen, because He knew that it was not the Father's purpose to see everyone supernaturally converted. ONLY THE ELECT WILL COME TO CHRIST IN SAVING FAITH.

In the final analysis, the mystery of the extent of the Atonement is actually beside the point of what Paul is saying in 1 Timothy 2:4. The mosrt important point of the verse is the free offer, not the mystery of predestination. Paul is keying on the fact that Christ is an All-Sufficient Savior, and he is keying on the the obvious sense in which He is willing to save everyone. But this is precisely the same sense which the Lord Jesus presented in John 6:37. In the final analysis, He definitely defers to the Father's will.

Please think about this for a while. After you have had a chance to absorb it, I will show you something else which you have overlooked about 1 Timothy 2:4. And this is largely because you don't read New Testament Greek.

And I think it will knock your socks off.

90 posted on 09/08/2001 7:30:59 PM PDT by the_doc
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To: the_doc
Ooops! I didn't get the fonts corrected after all. Anyway, I won't take up more bandwidth with another re-posting.

The fonts should be correct...now.

91 posted on 09/08/2001 7:36:36 PM PDT by the_doc
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