Posted on 09/24/2001 6:23:55 AM PDT by ReveBM
THE head of the German equivalent of the SAS has angered senior Nato officers by predicting a "bloodbath" if special forces from allied nations move into Afghanistan to try to hunt down Osama bin Laden.
In a deliberate call for caution, Brig Gen Reinhard Gunzel, who commands the elite Kommando Spezialkrafte (KSK), said success would be "almost impossible" without severe and unacceptable losses to his special troops and those of other allied nations.
Even if such a combined force did find bin Laden, this would not mean victory, he said. "Behind him stand so many fanatic followers that another one would immediately replace him."
The 57-year-old brigadier general added: "Special forces would come lightly armed and unprotected. There would be a bloodbath. No special unit in the western world could agree to such an action."
The Brig Gen insisted that troops with a "western philosophy" and a will not to die would have "little chance against men who are willing to give their lives in a fight".
His remarks were first published, with his full consent, on the internet by Spiegel Online news service on Friday as rumours spread through Germany that some KSK troops were about to be dispatched to within striking distance of Afghanistan.
Last night, a spokesman for the German ministry of defence confirmed that Brig Gen Gunzel had authorised the interview, but declined to comment further. Officials inside the ministry made clear, however, that the comments had shocked and angered fellow defence chiefs.
I think that in the coming battle the US special forces are going to be the ones who are going to be "fanatics". Americans have over five thousand dead to avenge.
I don't understand this comment. Americans are willing to give their lives to their country as well. When has that ever not been the case in war? These terrorists may be zealots but they don't stand a chance against our highly trained, motivated and well-equipped soldiers.
Our real worry in this conflict is not our how soldiers will perform in the field but how civilians will react to more instances of terror on American soil. This is the only real advantage these terrorists have, if it can be called that - they are willing to murder innocent civilians.
...is a career bureaucrat. Seriously, how many times has he had to lead men into battle? None? The courageous general is close to retirement and wants to spend his remaining time authorizing toilet paper requisitions, not lead men into battle.
Look, these Afghanis are NOT supermen. They are crafty, they know their country, they know the terrain like the backs of their hands. They are plenty dedicated. That's all true. However, they're about to face some plenty pi$$ed-off Americans who are going in to right a terrible wrong done to OUR country this time. If the good general doesn't see the difference, then maybe it's time for him to hang up his stars.
I *do* feel somewhat sorry about a story I read the other day. It profiled a single mom that had joined the army to get a steady paycheck with good benefits, and said that she didn't feel ready for war. Granted, she probably is not going to be the first person dropped into Afghanistan, but if there are more people like this among our forces, they need to be replaced.
That will be a powerful coalition. Make no mistake: I maintain that we WON in VietNam, both locally and strategically. But our victory was all the more difficult and bloody because of the pacifist (a term of convenience--I'm not sure that was the only, or even primary, motivation) impulse. And that element keeps getting stronger with every military action we take.
My entire point is that that 81% or whatever had better know what it will take, or it will quickly evaporate to us hard-core 30 or 40%. I prefer that our leaders overestimate, rather than underestimate, the difficulty going in.
Think again. What those who got Kosovo Medal got it for? For bravery and willlingness to risk their lives? Or for dropping cluster bombs from 15,000ft on civilian targets, For killing 14 tanks and 1500 civilians, for destroying passenger train and TV station?
With that kind of attitude (save your butt by bombing form high altitude), one does not win the wars, especially not in Afganistan where there is nothing left to bomb.
Clitoon is gone, but his legacy in the military will take years to fix.
As of German KSK, they have experience with radical islamist terrorists, they TRAINED them. With American blessing, Gen. Reinhardt and his KSK team provided training for Kosovo Albanian terrorists in Albania. Bin Laden network was fully operational in Albania at that time and benefited from western know-how. One of the Albanian cells is related to hijackers.
The Taliban functions ostensibly for religious reasons, but actually at the pleasure of external - Afghan powers.
O. B. Laden is the purposeful "black sheep" of the Saudi family; his role --- that is, "the movement" --- is to be situated so as to be part of the checking and balancing of the various oil and gas transmission alliances involved in the giant trans - Eurasian oil and gas infrastructure which has been in development for nearly 30 years, now.
The Red Chinese, the Russians, the Saudis, the Persians, the Iraqis, the Syrians, the Libyans, et al ... all desire that the oil and gas transmission "bidness" be within their respective "spheres of influence."
The resulting gamesmanship resembles that of the "old days" when various powers that be maneuvered to get the railroads to be located where each power desired.
The "various powers that be," engage in and then break alliances, which in one instant may seem encouraging, but in the next instant, "somebody is left out to dry" (among the many game moves).
The German general is all too aware of what special forces can do, as well as what they cannot do --- in the face of political forces which are unreliable, and in the face of the public's uncertainties about politicians' equivocating --- an example being, how immigration amnesty for over 6 mil illegal aliens was a good idea, "let 'em in," while establishing a Ministry of State Security to make war on the people already American citizens.
Given, that the emphasis has been on stripping airline passengers of their nail files --- examinination under the microscope, while the "higher-ups'" backs are turned and they ignore the points where security really did lapse ON ORDER OF THE WHITE HOUSE DURING THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.
Which administration is still in effect though nominally headed by a few officials of the Bush "Administration."
What is the point, a German general may ask, in minutely examining the powder kit of Ms. Jones while grossly ignoring the millions flowing across the border?
The good general may smell too many rats and quite possibly, really bad available intelligence: the lighter the attacking force, the better must be the required information.
General forces can "slug it out" and use recon in force as well as movement to gain ground. But special forces are "surgical" and need the best M.R.I. they can get; especially when they are expected to attack many points.
What is the point in committing light troops where the heavy follow-up is ... not?!
What the Soviets, Red Chinese, Cubans, and Euro-Socialists fostered in the anti-west terrorist and political movements since World War II, has now got legs of its own and at least come back to bight some of Europe and some of Russia; and has finally "succeeded" in attacking the U.S. mainland punitively. But perhaps not yet enough for especially Russia and the U.S.A. to be blood allies.
The Clinton Administration poured a lot of aid into the sphere of influence that is Red China's, while "lending" money to an already broke Russia, thereby keeping Russia at a trough from which it has had a heck of a time trying to recover. All this, to enable the development of energy projects to provide the "juice" for the enormous pool of cheap (by force of communism) labor of Red China's. Which strategy has been OK with world wide, i.e. "globalist," investors.
Except, up to the point where the traditional oil powers, such as the Arabs, require some counter-balance to ensure that *their* oil and gas remain in demand.
And then others getting into the act.
Any of whom, would not want to totally remove the Taliban as a useful game plot device.
Globalists playing with peoples' lives.
The German general would probably like to see some righteous unity trumping [what he has no doubt learned to expect in the way of] "the deal" suddenly being "in" [and support for his troops being "out"].
It would overall be cheaper in blood and tears, as well as the price tag, for the U.S.A. to build a merchant fleet and naval fleet to protect it, and then go get the oil and gas --- DIRECTLY --- and forget the damned oil and gas infrastructure pipelines.
But that would require the invested "powers that be" to suck it in and take the loss.
Perhaps the German general is more astute; and he is trying to tell us something in a manner which he can relate, if we get his drift.
Still, I'd like to one day read a cogent analysis (from someone better informed than I) about the global drug trade's role in this.
Remembering that Afghanistan/Pakistan is the center of the world's production of opium and our own government's well-documented dalliances with the Indochinese opium trade, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the actual "distribution system" being carefully monitored and maintained.
But I still admire your thinking on this.
I'm surprised that a man with a military background seems to know little of military history. We have faced enemies who were willing to give their lives in a fight. Quite recently, in fact. The Japanese who fought our forces in the Pacific Theatre were absolutely fanatic. They were willing to anything for their Emperor. Walking into American lines with their hands up, then blowing up a belt full of grenades? Sure, they did that. Crashing planes into ships and other targets or opportunity? Yep, did that, too. Jump off of cliffs rather than be captured? Okinawa and other places saw this.
Point is, we've seen it before, and managed to win out in the end. How? Superior logistics, tactics, courage, and, most of all, the will to fight to the end, to do whatever was necessary to end the war decisively in our favor.
Furthermore, the U.S. intelligence "industry" has got to be a big winner come budget time.
Maybe I've just been hanging around FR too long...
Anyway, speaking of oil, at least one person is advocating that we go in and take back the oil fields that American companies brought in only to have them nationalized. [link]
But entangling is the joy of diplomat-niks and ever more so, a western business "school of thought:" That economically - multi-linked - regions must deal with each other instead of shoot each other, and so by such entangling "bidness arrangements" ... "world peace" can be affected.
It's a very popular theory among global - investor - "thinkers."
Except it overlooks the older "popularity" of utilizing martial coercion which remains as a "weapon of choice" among various of the world's cultures: In the absence of a peaceful plan for getting what you want, stir up trouble in your opponent's back yard.
Such "tradition" is infamous for being employed by "expert" minds which think they've "got a handle on it," but historically have proven that they do not ... resulting in the later sorrow of moms and dads whose kids have to go off to war to correct the errors manifested by said "expert" "policy-makers."
No thanks.
To fight the Axis of Terrorism, requires that political and business leaders submit to the determination of the American people to prosecute the bad guys. Engage the Arsenal of Democracy. Gear up production of necessary material. Get our tranport capacity up to speed. And train the 100's of thousands of personnel we need.
We need fire engine production to double by the end of October.
We need 10,000 pilots in the training pipeline.
We need 20 mainline U.S. Army armored divisions in the pipeline.
We need three times the number of current police, fire, and emergency medial personnel ... to begin training as volunteers at each of the country fairgrounds (or other suitable location) immediately. We need these reserve battalions, now! Not after the next two attacks!
We need the fire departments to post guards over their equipment.
Our numerour fuel tanker-truck farms and routes need observers. We should be checking the IDs of all oil and gas transportation personnel, coming and going.
By the way, airports should be check people getting off the planes as well as on the planes.
The airports should have perimeter watch towers.
Our schools need volunteers, retirees, parents to operate on 2 hour shifts, as perimeter observers. And the schools should all have those concrete highway barriers blocking off any possible routes toward the facilities where a Taliban "warrior" with a fire engine loaded with fuel might try to crash into the school.
But no; not much of what is required in wartime, is on the minds of our "experts."
Instead, they want to send in the special forces and confiscate your pen knife.
President Bush could light up this country by giving an "Arsenal of Democracy" speech, and propose that we use our blessed strengths, instead of listening to all the "experts" whose "thinking" is absurdly, near - constantly, about suppressing the little people and trying to prevent a panic.
Well ... I suggest that we panic NOW! And GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
The American people have already done their part. They've gone to church and lit candles, they've put up an American flag (made in China) on their front porches, they've sent a check to the American Red Cross or the Salvation Army.
Now they are going to sit back and wait for further instructions from Rather, Brokaw, and Jennings...
As I said, I am not making light of your post. I am just telling you what I see.
Have people stopped buying soft drinks containing "gum arabic" or "gum acacia" - an ingredient made by only one place in the world - the Sudan- by a company owned by bin Laden? No.
Have people cut their use of gasoline from the Persian Gulf? No.
Have people done any of the thing you suggested? No.
Taliban burned one-year worth of opium crop. It is said that 2 years' worth of crop are avialable in stockpiles. Serious supply crisis for the heroin trade and those who control it.
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