Prayer doubles IVF success rate

New Scientist ^ | 09:53 05 October 01 | Emma Young

[Godel]

LOL... perhaps prayer will also help the success rate of stem cell research.

I think I'll pray for that tonight.

[Godel]

Interesting, if somewhat disquieting. I mean disquieting in the sense that I was taught that petitioning for any given "x" in prayer was a misuse of prayer. We pray for guidance and to accept God's will, do we not?

This is what I never understood. It seems extremely egotistical to pray and tell God what he should do. If God is all knowing and all powerful, then he will do what is best regardless. Is he going to have a master plan that requires one thing to happen, then change his mind because some idiot prayed about it?

It seems like the most appropriate prayers are "Let thy will be done" or asking for wisdom. I agree, asking for a specific thing just seems wrong (although I do ask for help when I lose my car keys!)

[Gumlegs]

Well, I've already been chastised on the point on this thread, so of course I'm wrong.

I do seem to recall -- from 'way back in the days when I was getting religious instruction -- that God would, indeed, grant requests made in prayer. There was a trick to it, though, and that was to get the wording exaaaaactly right. He seemed to be fond of granting what the mark was praying for, but with an unpleasant twist. Kinda like, "Okay, you prayed that Uncle Harry wouldn't die, so I'll grant the request ... so he'll be in a coma for ten years."

This was taught to us by way of getting us not to pray that way, but it did make it seem that God acted like the Marx Brothers. With a really twisted sense of humor.

[Godel]

He seemed to be fond of granting what the mark was praying for, but with an unpleasant twist. Kinda like, "Okay, you prayed that Uncle Harry wouldn't die, so I'll grant the request ... so he'll be in a coma for ten years."

You mean sort of like those stories about asking for wishes from djinni or efreeti's?

This was taught to us by way of getting us not to pray that way, but it did make it seem that God acted like the Marx Brothers. With a really twisted sense of humor.

If God id supernaturally intelligent and powerful, then wouldn't his sense of humor also be supernaturally well developed ;) I'm sure nobody appreciates a good gag like God.

[Dasaji]

God's sense of humor is incredible. Seemed like "time" was going too fast for me, the days blending into nights and next thing I knew, three weeks would pass. So I asked God to slow down time for me. The next day, my watch stopped, the internal clock on my computer lost about 10 minutes and the my car's clock lost a few minutes. I then realized the stupidity of my request! LOL! One time had to drive a car through hoardes of people to an auction. Would miss my time on the block if I didin't get there fast. Asked God to "part the people" so I could get through. Within a minute, a big old Honey Dipper/Porto Potty cleaner truck pulled in front of us and the people scattered!

[Gumlegs]

I'm sure nobody appreciates a good gag like God.

Maybe Dr. Henry J. Heimlich, but for different reasons?

[AndrewC]

If God doesn't like IVF why does praying to him make it more successful?

I believe I have answered that sufficiently.

[Godel]

I believe I have answered that sufficiently.

I do not believe so.

Isn't that like firing into a crowd and praying not to miss?

[AndrewC]

Isn't that like firing into a crowd and praying not to miss?

The people praying have no control over the event except for prayer and that for a good outcome. They did not ask for the IVF. Is that clear enough?

[Godel]

The people praying have no control over the event except for prayer and that for a good outcome. They did not ask for the IVF. Is that clear enough?

No.

See above.

[AndrewC]

No.

See above.

Ah well then you must blame Boeing for making the 767 and 757.

[Godel]

Ah well then you must blame Boeing for making the 767 and 757.

They bear some responsibility as does the airline industry.

However, a great deal of blame also falls on our society for encouraging citizens to play nice and just give in to the demands of criminals. We are told it's wrong to use a gun to defend ourselves and just to let the criminal steal what he needs. We are told not to fight but just to give in and let hostages seize control of a building, plane, etc.

That must change.

[Nebullis]

The people praying have no control over the event except for prayer and that for a good outcome.

I see. Along the lines of condom or clean needle distribution programs.

[AndrewC]

I see. Along the lines of condom or clean needle distribution programs.

If you insist. I take it you and Godel disagree with IVF, or are you both being disingenuous?