OUR LADY AND ISLAM: HEAVEN’S PEACE PLAN

http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/OLISLAM.HTM ^ | September - October 2001 | Fr Ladis J. Cizik, Blue Army National Executive Director

[RnMomof7]

Would you show us the scripture where Peter or Paul advise the "unbloody sacrifice on Calvery" ,roseries, icons,relics,repetive prayer (as the heathan do)

It is my contenting that it has added to scripture and is no longer in Gods will

[Joshua]

"Do a search on "the seat of Moses" or "the chair of Moses" in the Bible. Then compare that to "the chair of Peter." "

I gave you scripture that shows Peter never had the authority you give him yet you bring up his chair

Again you are trying to make a point without proving your premise. You can't do this. If Peter was not the leader, which I showed you, the "Chair" that the RC bestowed on him is no value except to the RC who try to make this point.

Here again we have the RC claiming authority it gave itself.

That dog won't hunt.

[RobbyS]

,roseries, icons,relics,repetive prayer (as the heathan do)

Come on, Mom, you can do better than this. Why not advise on organs, strained glass and flowers in the Church? As for repetive prayer, this would prohibit the Lord's Prayer or any reciting of learned Scriptual verses. There is a reason why Quakerism us nott the normal force of Christianity.

[RobbyS]

All scripture you quote to back your arguments have to be translated with the idea RC is the authority,but you don't prove it Since your interpretations are baed on the assumption that Rome is not the authority, then this shows the limits of any appeal to Scripture. Somehow, some place a choice must be made between different interpretations.

For instance, the Arian controversy was essentially a dispute over Scripture and the matter was not settled even in the minds of orthodox Christians for two hundred years, after much discussion in many synods and councils. Even so in the year 600, the majority of Christians were not orthodox but Arian, Nestorian, or Monophysite.

In the end, God settled the matter in favor of Orthodoxy, because Arianism and Nestorianism do not flourish today, at least not publicly. Likewise in the dispute between Catholic and Protestant and Orthodox and whatever, God will eventually decide the matter.

[Joshua]

"In the end, God settled the matter in favor of Orthodoxy, because Arianism and Nestorianism do not flourish today, at least not publicly. Likewise in the dispute between Catholic and Protestant and Orthodox and whatever, God will eventually decide the matter. "

God settled the matter 2000 years ago on a hill called Calvary.

This isn't a numbers game. If Islam overtakes Christianity in size are we to assume God decided on Islam?

We are warned of a great apostasty, people falling from the faith. If in the end there are only two believers left that is the church and the gates of hell did not prevail against it. The truth never changes.

Salvation isn't a democracy where the majority rule.

" Matt 7:14 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (NIV) "

This scripture would make me very carefull about going with the masses.(No pun intended)

[Joshua]

"Come on, Mom, you can do better than this. Why not advise on organs, strained glass and flowers in the Church? "

I can't remember the last time I saw someone on their knees praying to a stained glass window,or putting fresh cut flowers on a pedestal and marching down the street with the crowds screaming.

Praying the organ stopped years ago.. It was just to cumbersome to carry all those organs strung to a chain in your pocket. And forget about hanging them from the rear view mirror..

[RnMomof7]

,roseries, icons,relics,repetive prayer (as the heathan do)

Come on, Mom, you can do better than this. Why not advise on organs, strained glass and flowers in the Church? As for repetive prayer, this would prohibit the Lord's Prayer or any reciting of learned Scriptual verses. There is a reason why Quakerism us nott the normal force of Christianity.

Hi Robby..thought ya were lost...just waiting to come back and get me in a weak moment huh?*grin*

Ok I will try do better ."I am the Lord they God,I will have no other gods before me",Now read this well Robby

Exodus20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

20:5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;</font color>

On Prayer:

Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
Matthew 6:9 "This, then, is how you should pray: "`Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,

This is HOW you should pray Robby,not what you should pray...

The icons in the Catholic Church grieve God..they take away from His glory..people kneel before them,light candles to them,put flowers in front of them..

Gods word specifically forbids icons..period..there are no exceptions.He is who is worthy..of all praise of all honor of all glory..

I believe that stained glass windows fall into that too Robby..Icons..

I note you did not copy my reference to the "unbloody sacrifice of Calvery"From the pen of the man you claim fathered the church

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

Once for all Robby..no "unbloody sacrifice" that too is a repetive "prayer"

Again from Peter 1 Peter 1 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

Salvation is in the shed blood Robby...the "unbloody sacrifice is a lie..the only sacrifice God reconizes is a bloody one..ask Cain..ask Abraham.There is no "unbloody sacrifice" that is pleasing to God!

Hebrews 13:12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Jesus Christ,fully God and fully man was the only acceptible sacrifice for my sin..for your sin..no unbloody sacrifice..no repetive prayer, no icons or stained windows...only the Blood of My God could pay my debt..and for that He deserves all my praise and all my Glory..He should not be asked to share it with roseries and saint and masses...He is King of King ,and Lord of Lords

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

[RobbyS]

The unbloody sacrifice of the mass is done in accordance with the command of Christ and takes its efficacy from the bloody sacrifice of the Cross and the Resurrection, so the words are not vain. Have we not been commanded to repeat them as thanksgiving and praise to the Glory of God? God has ended the sacrifices in the temple , but he has provided for sacrifices even among the gentiles everywhere.

[RobbyS]

God settled the matter 2000 years ago on a hill called Calvary.

If God has decided among the squabbling members of his family, he certainly keeps his own counsel. We can only judge by the scores at the end of quarters.

[RnMomof7]

Have we not been commanded to repeat them as thanksgiving and praise to the Glory of God? God has ended the sacrifices in the temple , but he has provided for sacrifices even among the gentiles everywhere.

Where are we commanded Robby?

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished.." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Hebrews 4 14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin.
16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Hebrews 8 1 The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.

Hebrews 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, `Here I am--it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'""Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made).
9 Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second.
10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,
14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

"It is finished.Robby...The unbloody sacrifice of Cain was rejected by God and so is the "unbloody sacrifice of Calvery"

[Joshua]

"If God has decided among the squabbling members of his family, he certainly keeps his own counsel. We can only judge by the scores at the end of quarters. "

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[RobbyS]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Even if you proved your case, you have proved nothing. Time will tell who is right.

[Joshua]

"Even if you proved your case, you have proved nothing. Time will tell who is right. "

Sorry counselor but this isn't a court of law. I need to prove nothing.
My case came up 2000 years ago and I was aquitted. I will never again stand before a judge for my sins.
I'm commanded to defend my faith and share the Gospel. If they don't accept I'm to walk away.

This isn't some silly high school debate where the winner is decided on points scored.

[RobbyS]

I need to prove nothing. My case came up 2000 years ago and I was aquitted. I will never again stand before a judge for my sins.

Unless you are deceased, you haven't met him yet, at least face to face.

[Godfollow]

Heard 'em already... sorry.

[RobbyS]

I'm sure you know what you mean, however...

[RnMomof7]

Have we not been commanded to repeat them as thanksgiving and praise to the Glory of God? God has ended the sacrifices in the temple , but he has provided for sacrifices even among the gentiles everywhere.

Hi robby..still waiting to see where an unbloody sacrifice is commanded..

[Godfollow]

Are your sure you know what you mean... Boing

[jonatron]

Islam - The religion of peace(tm)