Posted on 10/18/2001 9:04:36 PM PDT by Big Guy and Rusty 99
Go rent an old copy of 'The Hanoi Hilton'. Certainly one line was true. A new POW was crying and broken because he felt he was a traitor after talking during a torture session. An older POW, who had been there longer, consoled him by saying words to this effect: "It's not a matter of if you will break, but when. The only thing you can do is go back in and fight it again next time. Every time you go in you hold out as long as you can. That's all you can do."
If you weren't there you don't know, and I thank God that I was not. But I have spoken with many many who were there, who were POWs. And to a man they will tell you that the only ones who didn't talk were the ones who died during torture sessions. There are a lot of things one can say about John McCain, but throwing the Code of Conduct in his face in this situation is not acceptable from where I sit. Because if he is guilty then they are all guilty and therefore not deserving of what little praise america has offered for these men who gave so dearly in the name of their country. In my book they're not guilty of a thing: Heroes every one.
Have you ever been a P.O.W.?
Nope. (We'll get back to this question)
Have you ever talked with one, in person, about what it was like?
Gee, only if you count my brother who's helicopter was shot down.
Do me a favor before you start criticizing guys who talked in Vietnam
I'm NOT criticizing those that talked in Vietnam, I'm pointing out that McCain VOLUNTEERED information for special favors.
.. remember one thing: they ALL talked, every last one of them.
Yep, many did, but they also gave as little as they could, did NOT offer up military information FOUR DAYS after being shot down. Not four days after being captured, but four days after being SHOT DOWN.
Sit down some if you should be so fortunate with someone like ADM Stockdale, a true American hero. I had the distinct pleaseure of meeting the Admiral and he spoke with myself and some others about what is was like behind the walls, and what the vietnamese soldiers did to he and others who were captured. It is horrid and unthinkable, and just hearing about it doesn't seem real.
You're right. It was horrible for them, and am thankful I was never one of them.
But then you raise your head from the floor and look the man telling the story in the eye, and you see him fight the tears as he talks about what he went through, how he was lucky to survive, and how he still has nightmares, 25 years later, and in his nightmares he can hear the screams of his compatriots, and he knows that some of them will succumb to the pain, that they will give up, and that they will die. Go rent an old copy of 'The Hanoi Hilton'. Certainly one line was true. A new POW was crying and broken because he felt he was a traitor after talking during a torture session. An older POW, who had been there longer, consoled him by saying words to this effect: "It's not a matter of if you will break, but when. The only thing you can do is go back in and fight it again next time. Every time you go in you hold out as long as you can. That's all you can do."
Yeah, and isn't it amazing that McCain was willing to sell his country out so very easily. He VOLUNTEERED the information for special favors.
If you weren't there you don't know, and I thank God that I was not.
Here's the part were I said I would get back to this. If, because I wasn't there, I don't know, then YOU don't know either. People can have information about things without actually experiencing them. Your information is second hand, as is mine. I expect people to at least TRY to live to the Code of Conduct. MY opinion of McCain is that he is a traitor, and that anyone who calls him a hero is needs to be made aware of the facts of McCains time as a POW.
But I have spoken with many many who were there, who were POWs. And to a man they will tell you that the only ones who didn't talk were the ones who died during torture sessions.
OK, but did they VOLUNTEER miltary information 4 days after being shot down?
There are a lot of things one can say about John McCain, but throwing the Code of Conduct in his face in this situation is not acceptable from where I sit.
The Code of Conduct is EXACTLY what should be thrown in McCain's face. The Code is what helped others to survive, to resist as long as they could, and to endure. Because someone couldn't live up to the standards of the Code of Conduct is not reason to ignore the Code of Conduct.
Because if he is guilty then they are all guilty
Hardly. Not even close. Only the ones that WILLINGLY VOLUNTEERED information.
and therefore not deserving of what little praise america has offered for these men who gave so dearly in the name of their country. In my book they're not guilty of a thing: Heroes every one.
Except for the ones that VOLUNTARILY provided military information for special favors.
(But I still don't like McStain. Don't like my Sinators either. I'm from Illinois.)
McCain, as a member of the 1992 Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, took the lead in demanding a U.S. Justice Department investigation of the POW/MIA activists and their organizations. He accused the activists of fraud because in some of their fund-raising literature the activists claimed the U.S. government knowingly left U.S. POWs behind after the Vietnam War and that some remain alive today.
McCain openly attacked the activists telling the press, "The people who have done these things are not zealots in a good cause. They are the most craven, most cynical and most despicable human beings to ever run a scam." The Justice Department did investigate the POW/MIA activists and their organizations and found no reason to charge any POW/MIA activist.
Obviously, some here think he's a war hero and would want to do what he can to help put to rest the anxieties and emotions felt by the survivors of those that were in captivity in Vietnam. I think he's a self-serving coward.
No, it isn't.
It depends on the specifics of what is thought. Marx "thought for himself" at one time, too.
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