Remarks by President Bush at Signing of USA Patriot Act of 2001

US Newswire ^ | 10/26/01 | George W. Bush

[philman_36]

You've got as much spin as a top in your post!
...but I do not believe our founding fathers ever faced such a horrific threat which we are currenly facing.
He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance. Dec. of Ind

They were fighting for liberties which we did not have back then.
"To understand political power aright, and derive it from its original, we must consider what state all men are naturally in, and that is a state of perfect freedom to order their actions and dispose of their possessions and persons as they see fit. Within the bounds of the law of nature, without asking leave or depending upon the will of any other man." Locke

Now we are fighting for our very lives and existance as a nation.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln

I think John Adams and the gang would understand that certain things need to change for the good of our national security.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither safety nor liberty. Benjamin Franklin

Calm down, and don't worry so much about our civil liberties....and start worrying about what is really important right now.
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." Bill Clinton

Everything else will work itself out in the end.
"He who jumps to conclusions falls to their death." -- Mark J. Ottaviani

[Sandy]

Even after the Supremes gut this deal

...assuming that they'll gut it. They won't (especially after W gets some additional "conservatives" on the Court).

[another1]

Wasn't the name of that courageous Constitution defender - Orrin Hatch - previously mentioned in just such a context?

[Sandy]

Oh God... I don't know. Whoever he appoints though--in this atmosphere of criticism=treason--will not be opposed.

[philman_36]

How long can you stay in business?
You tell me how long you can stay in business instead of asking an open-ended question!

Or do you not understand what it means to be a legitimate business in America?
Why don't you tell me what it means to be a legitimate business in America so I won't have to play your guessing game.

The Internet was constructed by the government.
I actually knew that! It was called ARPAnet!

Please do not be so naive...
I won't, and I'm not.

The "except for the government" clauses in contracts for "legitimate business" are there for a reason.
I'm sure it is.
La Migra! Comprende?
Maybe you should consider getting a new screen name.

[Sandy]

I'm anxious for the final bill to come out

Here it is.

[philman_36]

Hint: The Internet was constructed by the government.
Hint: You need a clue.
Project Origins
The popular belief is that the military created the ARPAnet, the precursor of today’s Internet, so that data held on Pentagon computers could survive a nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. Upon attack, data from computers at the Pentagon and other military installations could be uploaded (sent electronically) to other remote computers not affected by such an attack. Recent research by Hafner and Lyon (1996), who have interviewed many of those involved in the ARPAnet project, has demonstrated that nuclear war survivability was little more than an afterthought of the project participants. The main reason ARPAnet was developed was so that early mainframe computers at universities, research centres, defence contractors, and arms of the military could share computing power and resources such as databases with each other.

Inventors Of The Modern Computer
One opposing view to ARPAnet's origins comes from Charles M. Herzfeld, the former director of ARPA. He claimed that ARPAnet was not created as a result of a military need, stating "it came out of our frustration that there were only a limited number of large, powerful research computers in the country and that many research investigators who should have access were geographically separated from them." ARPA stands for the Advanced Research Projects Agency, a branch of the military that developed top secret systems and weapons during the Cold War.

Of course you can probably find something to refute this if you look for it.

[rdavis84]

"The consent has been manufactured masterfully here."

Only in Their minds.

Polls are not acquiescence.

[Sandy]

Since the old rules allowed spies the ability to operate for years inside our government agencies without the FBI and CIA being able to extract them

Nonsense. It was corrupt and incompetent government that allowed it. We didn't need new laws. We needed new people enforcing the old ones.

[philman_36]

Thanks Sandy. After a cursory glance, there is so much cross-referencing to be done to understand this bill that it will take a month or more for someone to get it all straightened out.
Too much for me right now. I'll just be ignorant until then, I guess.

[toenail]

Oranges and lemons
Say the bells of St. Clements

I owe you five farthings
Say the bells of St. Martins

When will you pay me?
Say the bells at Old Bailey

When I grow rich
Say the bells at Shoreditch

When will that be?
Say the bells of Stepney

I'm sure I don't know
Says the great bell of Bow

Here comes a candle to light you to bed
Here comes a chopper to chop off your head

[another1]

Thank you for that link, Sandy.

From your link:

Measure Title: A bill to deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes.

While I know it is standard phrasing, the words "and for other purposes" take on a whole new meaning now.

[Native American Female Vet]

Excuse me.....but I do not believe our founding fathers ever faced such a horrific threat which we are currently facing."

I do not think they would see it that way.

" They were fighting for liberties which we did not have back then."

Yes liberties that today congress and the president so freely signed away to the likes of the Fumbling Bumbling Incompetent FBI and that later can be used by the likes of another Bill Clinton.

" Now we are fighting for our very lives and existence as a nation."

And we have the ability to win without any American citizen loosing one single right or liberty.

"I think John Adams and the gang would understand that certain things need to change for the good of our national security.

John Adams said 'Government turns every contingency into a means of enhancing power and the and the government."

James Madison said "Since the general civilization of mankind I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment by those in power than by violent and sudden usurption.

I cant think of one founding father who would say this was all well and good.

Calm down, and don't worry so much about our civil liberties..."

Don't worry about civil liberties....how sad that is to hear from any American

and start worrying about what is really important right now.

This is important to me. There is not a dang thing I can do to stop those terrorist and giving up my rights certainly wont help. These terrorist are not AMERICAN, they have no rights here. Look the INS could have been giving broader power in some of these areas. Innocent Americans will have to deal with these sneaky things the government can now do and if you dont think so your wrong. .

Everything else will work itself out in the end."

I bet it will.

[Native American Female Vet]

Thanks Sandy

[aristeides]

The changes, effective today, will help counter a threat like no other our nation has ever faced. We've seen the enemy, and the murder of thousands of innocent, unsuspecting people. They recognize no barrier of morality. They have no conscience. The terrorists cannot be reasoned with. Witness the recent anthrax attacks through our Postal Service.

It doesn't sound to me as if President Bush blames right-wing militia types for the anthrax letters.

[IRtorqued]

more like a vote for bush was a vote for gore.
26 October 2001, the day that freedom died.

[IRtorqued]

Excuse me.....but I do not believe our founding fathers ever faced such a horrific threat which we are currenly facing. They were fighting for liberties which we did not have back then. Now we are fighting for our very lives and existance as a nation. I think John Adams and the gang would understand that certain things need to change for the good of our national security. Calm down, and don't worry so much about our civil liberties....and start worrying about what is really important right now. Everything else will work itself out in the end.

Our founding fathers were indeed fighting for liberties they had as they are GOD given rights.
The Bill of Rights merely enumerates those GOD given rights, rights that those currently in power seek to deny.
26 October 2001, the day that freedom died.

United States Bill of Rights

[rdavis84]

"We've seen the enemy, and the..............."

Obvious.

[scrambled_transmission]

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
- Charles Austin Beard, historian

[Deb]

Baloney. Bringing existing federal laws in line with city police laws is hardly a threat to anyone but international terrorists. Besides, "the right people" are in charge, thank God.

Fortunately, anyone you and the other anarchist malcontents want enforcing existing laws has no chance of getting elected.