Posted on 10/29/2001 6:59:00 AM PST by Aquinasfan
I'm listening to "Pretzel Logic" right now, and it's as fresh today as it was back when I was a high schooler. Can't say that about too many bands that have come and gone (and come again).
But you're still a newbie : - )
But seriously, welcome to Free Republic!
Here's a link to one of my favorite posts: Proud Night to be a Father
Bump!
The requests in Jabez's prayer are asked in accordance to God's will. About the second one - "enlarge my territory".... IMO, what the author tried to get across was that it means asking God to use you to further His Kingdom. To reach other people and "live large" for God.
The other criticism I keep hearing is that the author teaches to recite this prayer by rote, like a chant, and not a heartfelt prayer. Of course this is what pagans do, and it goes against what Jesus said about how to pray. I can't speak for the author, but I don't think that is what he meant. He just stated that he prays the Jabez prayer everyday, and that he has been incredibly blessed in his life.
I liked the book, and despite the controversy, I think its bringing a lot of people to God.... the fact that a Christian book is on top of the best sellers list is a great thing, don't you think?
On the other hand, Jabez' prayer for God to bless him is just that. But through the miracle of book deals and modern marketing it is now the way, the truth, and the life for many people. That's unfortunate. God could have chosen to answer Jabez no matter what he prayed, even if he was misguided in his prayer. And he may have been misguided, or else specifically guided by his spirit for that time in his personal life. And God can answer the many sincere but misguided "Jabez prayers" today as well, even if they aren't what God would want for a person at the time.
That's why it's best to be guided by the spirit in every situation we face. In prayer, follow the outline of commands to Christians in the New Testament and go from there. But Jabez' prayer was never before and shouldn't now be elevated to the pattern given to the Church by Jesus or a Pauline Epistle, just because Bruce Wilkinson wants to rake in the cash with a new fad.
But the problem I see with the Jabez book is that it doesn't even start with a good foundation, and deviate off the path. It's all magic formula pulled from the hat of Bible history. I could just as easily see how you once prayed for an increase in your herd, and it increased, and write a book on the specific words you used and how saying your prayer phrase non-stop is the key to all blessings.
It sets people up for failure because sometimes God may not materially bless a holy man who says it making him wonder about what's wrong with him -- because of course the prayer is perfect and works for everyone else.
Spycatcher, As far as chanting???? Where does it say that? I don't recall reading that in the book. It says to pray it daily...to me that means you pray it once, that day....not hundreds of times. Where on earth did that come from ???
There is nothing wrong with petitioning the Lord for something daily, or frequently. "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God" Phil. 4:6. Luke 18 Christ speaks in a parable and addresses the issue of persistance.
I think that it also needs to be taken into account that any prayer that goes up without faith, is just that. If someone is going to recite lines of anything, are not a child of God, and do not have the faith and belief it will come to pass.....then nothing will happen. I think it is sad for some people here to pick this book apart, and say it is bad because it will damage someone's faithlife, or christian walk. I have had many struggles and trials myself in the past year-and-a-half. This book and this prayer have not caused my faith to waver!
I am thankful to the Lord that this book was written. I have heard of many unexpected blessings received by many from these prayers. Myself, I have seen our borders expanded! The expectation and anticipation and joy are marvelous!!
I agree with the first paragraph.
I think anytime a book is on a list of favorite books that is cataloged by the unsaved world, that is a reason to doubt the book really contains great spiritual uplifting. God's word and the Gospel is an offense to the unsaved. Only the seeking heart will ever get anything of any long term benefit out of a genuinely spiritual book.
What I thought about this article, was it did make the case for a "name-it-and-claim-it" theology, and more than half-way through the article's author calls it almost that, but in the end, she repeats the claim that the man who recites it continues to 'receive blessing'. I cannot deny that a person may receive blessing from prayer, but from a repititious prayer like you yourself pointed out was a pagan practice?
Something doesn't seem right here. Christ's admonition for prayer is clear in the LORD'S PRAYER, the style we are to pray in, what we are to pray for. ALso, in the Sermon on the Mount, we are told to SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, and THEN will we get material blessings. There is no mention of a 'magic prayer' like this seems to be, or a chain mail prayer almost, "Just say this prayer and watch your life change/get money/attract friends"...That sounds more like spell casting or some kind of wizardry, make the magic incantation and God will make your dreams come true.
That is the stuff of Genies, not a Holy, Sovereign God. Besides, Solomon asked for just wisdom in how he should judge Israel, not riches or long life, and due to the right heart, God gave him all three. In fact, if Solomon asked for just riches or long life,
the verse in 1 KINGS 3:5 In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
6 And Solomon said, Thou hast showed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
7 And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
13 And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.
14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.
If there ever were times for someone to ask for material things, this sounds like one of them. And, with Solomon's youth, his request for riches or wealth or safety from enemies would be normal for someone who isn't mature enough to think about what to ask God for. I would say he only got riches and honor because he asked for the right thing first and ONLY.
Matthew 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
If we do ask for things that Honor God first, we can expect that prayer to be answered, so Jabez's request had to have more meaning than material goods like you were saying, I am just concerned with those who dont realize that.
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