The Towers Have Fallen - But We Missed the Message

timessquarechurch.org ^ | 9/16/01

[truthandlife]

Ptaz, looking at my post, it does look like I am judging RussianBear's salvation based on few assumptions and that is wrong. I do not want to out like that. RussianBear please forgive me.

God is a God of love but he is also a just God (please read my post #76 for my explanation). If people want to deny God being just he is not the God of the Bible.

RussianBear again I am sorry and please forgive me. If I could, I would like to ask your personal opinion on something. what do you understand it takes for a person to go to heaven?

[RussianBear716]

Check out Post 196. You are so certain that only your intepretation on the Bible is the correct one that you put on blinders to what anyone else thinks!

My proof that God is loving, caring, merciful,compassionate,and forgiving comes from my reading of the Bible and my experiences.

People like yourself who think only THEIR reading of the Bible is correct have plagued us throughout history. They were there during the Crusades, the Spanish Inquistion and the Salem witch trials. They were people who killed their fellow man in the name of God, acts which surely made God weep! Isn't there one of the Ten Commandments that says "Thou Shalt not kill"? Why then would God have bin Laden kill those people at the WTC? If he is as angry at America as you say, why wouldn't he have done it himself?

Your type of religious fervor is dangerous, you only see what you want and accept those inpretations of the Bible that mesh with your own. Anyone else is doomed to Hell. It is people who think like you that DRIVE PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD!

[truthandlife]

I have read your reply and take it into consideration. I would like to ask your personal opinion on something. What do you understand it takes for a person to go to heaven? When you stand before God and if he were to hypothetically ask you, "Russianbear, why should I let you into My heaven?" What would you say?

[Prodigal Daughter]

But judgment and repentance in the Bible don't mean that God perpetrates evil, but when anyone mentions God's judgments, people stretch it to say that we are saying that God did it. There's a difference. God gives us the free will to follow His kingdom or the other world kingdom, that doesn't mean the people deserved to die or that the terrorists aren't evil. We seem to think we're God's gift to himself and we're invincible. The biggest tragedy is turning our backs on our Creator.

Bless you, prison, for having been in my life. The meaning of earthly existence lies, not as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering, but in the development of the soul. -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

[3ZZZ]

Yea, look at all the trouble Mother Teresa caused. DUH!

[tonycavanagh]

But why America.

God is not an America he does not have a American mindset he has a global mindset, so is America more wicked than China, more evil than Iraq, more corrupt than Nigeria.

So God will punish America for living fast, for allowing Gays and Single Moms, but what about countries that allow for the starving to death of thousands of children everyday world wide they don’t even get a look in.

That is why I don’t agree with this thread because deep down it is nothing about God and everything about America.

America is the most powerful nation on earth both economically and militarily but it is not heaven on earth and Americans are not gods chosen people. Have you as a people grown so arrogant in your own believe that you have fallen into the same way of think as my country did at the height of empire when we stated that God was an English man

Tony

[OWK]

But judgment and repentance in the Bible don't mean that God perpetrates evil, but when anyone mentions God's judgments, people stretch it to say that we are saying that God did it.

Sorry, but I'm not stretching anything.

There are people on this thread who said quite directly, and without apology, that God did it.

If that isn't you, then my comments don't apply to you.

[RussianBear716]

I have read your reply and take it into consideration. I would like to ask your personal opinion on something. What do you understand it takes for a person to go to heaven? When you stand before God and if he were to hypothetically ask you, "Russianbear, why should I let you into My heaven?" What would you say?

One thing that gets me really upset is for people to portray God as something he's not. But to answer your question, I believe this summarizes what I believe about salvation:

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16.15)

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.(Acts 2:21)

... and brought them out and said, "Men, what must I do to be saved?" And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:30-31)

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8)

[truthandlife]

I know we disagree on many things but we do agree on that. I am glad to hear that. Have you ever trusted Jesus Christ as Your Savior and Lord? If you have ever done that how and when did it happen?

[Ptaz]

...but when anyone mentions God's judgments, people stretch it to say that we are saying that God did it.

That was my point. Several posts further up explicitly stated God did this. This was an act of men who wanted to commit murder. And act that I believe grieves the heart of God as it would any Father.

God gives us the free will to follow His kingdom or the other world kingdom, that doesn't mean the people deserved to die or that the terrorists aren't evil. And he gives men the free will to commit evil as well. None of us are invincable and our lives can be snuffed out in a heartbeat. Some posts in this forum would have us believe it's God's fault anyone dies. And to say God was using it as an object lesson is just plain wrong. I know I wouldn't want to be held accountable for those words--not of out fear of God but I believe that even to think such a thing of our Heavenly Father would grieve him.

The biggest tragedy is turning our backs on our Creator.

That happens in more ways than you know. There are more types of sins than the overt sin spoken of so frequently in this forum. Religious arrogance is also sin. Believers should be a light to the world--not the one that makes the world think he's going to strike them dead at any moment just because of their sin. That drives people from God rather than causing them to be closer to God.

[Ptaz]

Ptaz, looking at my post, it does look like I am judging RussianBear's salvation based on few assumptions and that is wrong. I do not want to out like that. RussianBear please forgive me.

Thanks for responding in this manner. I would not presume to know RussianBear's level of salvation. He could be a Christian of many years or a newbie. We just cannot judge something like that across a forum. I just try to assume the best of intentions because it's dangerous to assume.

God is a God of love but he is also a just God (please read my post #76 for my explanation). If people want to deny God being just he is not the God of the Bible

"It is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment." (incidentally, that judgment can be for or against....)

[RussianBear716]

I know we disagree on many things but we do agree on that. I am glad to hear that. Have you ever trusted Jesus Christ as Your Savior and Lord? If you have ever done that how and when did it happen?

Thanks for your response. To answer your question, yes I have. It was about 13 years ago, He helped me turn my life around and got me going in the right direction. Also, he brought a very special woman into my life who helped me see the truth, brought joy into my life and someone I love with all my heart. We have been married going on 11 yrs now ...

[Paul Ross]

So, I suppose in contrast that YOU really know God's will, and are fully-assed? Typical Liberal mindset. 'You know best.' Illustrated by Cronkite, as lampooned by Ann Coulter:

In lieu of a military response against terrorists abroad and security precautions at home, liberals would like to get the whole thing over with and just throw Jerry Falwell in jail.

Walter Cronkite, better known as president of the Ho Chi Minh Veneration Society, has compared the Rev. Falwell to the Taliban. In response to Falwell's comment that gay marriage and abortion on demand may not have warmed the heart of the Almighty, Cronkite proclaimed it "the most abominable thing I've ever heard."

Showing the dispassion and critical judgment that earned him the moniker "the most pious blowhard in America," this self-serving, multimillionaire Martha's Vineyard boob accused Falwell of "worshipping the same God as the people who bombed the Trade Center and the Pentagon."

Liberals compare Jerry Falwell to the Taliban, but then are furious with George Bush for not being Jesus Christ. Evidently, what a president is supposed to do when the girls are scared is develop complete omniscience and omnipotence.

Too true, Ann, too true.

[truthandlife]

BUMP

[RightWhale]

You Know God Has Delivered a Message to America and the World Through This Disaster.

I am with ministers and theologians everywhere who say this was a deed of men, not a message from God. This was not God speaking.

There might be a lot wrong with America. We aren't especially courteous, especially on the road. We don't do our math homework as much as we should. We not only create, but listen to rap music. The list is endless.

But even though some confused radicals thought America was inviting attack, it wasn't.

If God wished to speak directly to America, he would act directly, not act through servants of Satan.

[Moosilauke]

And when Bangladesh has one of its periodic floods where hundreds of thousands perish, what message is God sending them? And does Wilkerson write sermons for them to let them know that Someone is sending them a message?

[truthandlife]

Keep praying for our Presdident. I will post what I think is important right now on 9/11/03.

We all should pray that God would give our President the same spirit that Josiah had, to tremble at his Word. The Lord spoke the following to Josiah:

“Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof…because they have forsaken me, and have (worshipped) other gods…But [say] to the king of Judah which sent you to enquire of the Lord…Because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the Lord, and thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse…I also have heard thee, saith the Lord. Behold therefore…thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place” (2 Kings 22:15-20).

God told the king, in essence, “As long as you’re in power, trembling at my Word and relying on me, you won’t see the judgments to come. They won’t happen during your reign.”

I believe our window of opportunity to respond to God’s call is brief. We all should pray that our nation repents and turns back to the Lord. But our most intense prayers should be for our own hearts: “Lord, let me tremble not at the disasters, but at your Word. I want to hear your voice in all of this. Cause me to turn wholly to you.”

[truthandlife]

Keep praying for our President. I will post what I think is important right now on 9/11/03 (2 years aniversary). I am deeply saddened to see the state of our nation. We are not a repentant nation and it seems like we are hanging by a thread. Pray for the President that he will start making the right decisions on Israel. I truly believe his position on the Palestinian statehood has helped him get in the trouble he is in politically.

We all should pray that God would give our President the same spirit that Josiah had, to tremble at his Word. The Lord spoke the following to Josiah:

“Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof…because they have forsaken me, and have (worshipped) other gods…But [say] to the king of Judah which sent you to enquire of the Lord…Because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the Lord, and thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse…I also have heard thee, saith the Lord. Behold therefore…thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place” (2 Kings 22:15-20).

God told the king, in essence, “As long as you’re in power, trembling at my Word and relying on me, you won’t see the judgments to come. They won’t happen during your reign.” I believe our window of opportunity to respond to God’s call is brief. We all should pray that our nation repents and turns back to the Lord. But our most intense prayers should be for our own hearts: “Lord, let me tremble not at the disasters, but at your Word. I want to hear your voice in all of this. Cause me to turn wholly to you.”