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To: Diogenesis
I posted this on another similar thread, take it for what it's worth:

A few posters so far have one thing pegged for sure- I find it difficult to believe that the reporter actually talked to a Delta Force member. I was 8 years US Army Infantry. I'm here to tell you- almost nothing is known about Delta Force. I would expect the knowledge level about Spec Ops to be higher in the Army than in the civilian life (or "the world/real world" as it's refered to). Long time soldiers don't even know anything about Delta- and I mean nothing. So it is very difficult to believe that someone outside of that world could know anything about what Delta Force is about, has done or is about to do.

I would like to put this into context. As an Infantryman who has deployed more than once, I can tell you, we were given classes on the media, reporters and how to react to an interview. The Army (in contrast to the Air Force and Navy) is deeply suspicious and wary of the media. Before I was sent to Bosnia we were explicitly trained in what we could, could not and what we were "expected" to say to the media. Any reporter would be accompanied by a liason officer who would know when to shut up a dumb private if he said the wrong thing- that's a fact. In addition, think about this:

You have to have a security clearance before you can be Delta Force. If the ordinary Joe (with no security clearance) can't talk to the media, do I really think that someone who is the elite of the "secret society" would blab to a reporter who exposed one of the Army's uglier skeletons?

I also want to shed some more light on something from a former Infantryman's perspective. This regards the public conception of "Special Forces" and how the media reports on them. When you hear the terms "Ranger", "Special Forces" and "Delta Force" you are hearing about three distinctly different animals.

To start with, Rangers (at the risk of upsetting any Rangers out there) are NOT Special Forces. These two "tabs" are the most highly respected in the Army and it is the rare soldier who has them both. If you are Special Forces you wear that tab and you know who you are. If you are a Ranger, you wear THAT tab and you know who you are. Also, there's a difference between "wearing the tab" and "being in a Ranger Bat (battalion)". If you made it through the "school" you are a Ranger and wear a Ranger "tab". Soldiers with a Ranger tab are HIGHLY respected in the Army by their fellow soldiers. They are "special" and the first thing one soldier does when he meets a new soldier is to check out his uniform. He scans the left breast and shoulder for "badges and tabs". Airborne, Air Assault, EIB, CIB,Ranger, Special Forces- and the very rare "Pathfinder" and "Scuba".

But any Infantryman makes a distinction between someone with a Ranger tab and a Ranger who was in a Ranger Bat. This is much the same as the epiphany a soldier has when he realizes he really became a soldier "downrange" or in in the "real Army" and not in Basic Training. That's where you really learn your job and how to do things. The same for a Ranger. Someone in a "bat" trains with Ranger tactics a great deal of the time where as the more mundane Infantryman spends a great deal of time maintaining equipment and doing sh*t work. It's all about funds. Rangers are better soldiers physically and mentally and they rightly get more funding. But Rangers are still Infantry and they still fight in Infantry sized compliments (platoon, company, battalion).

Special Forces go through the "Q" course and wear the famous "green beret". They are very smart soldiers who have displayed a very good ability at working as part of a team (in addition to their physical prowess). To go through the "Q" course a soldier first has to make it through SFAS (SF assessment). This drops most candidates (including Tim McVeigh). SF is no f*cking joke. An SF medic is basically trained to do surgery and his is the hardest training of all at approx. 12 months. There are four job specialties (weapons, commo, medic and engineer) An 18B (SF Weapons Spc) is the LOWEST job specialty and if you are a former mortar man (like me :-) you have already sussed a full 50% of 18B training which is mortar related (you gotta be a genius to be a mortar ;-)

But Delta? Nobody knows what those guys are up to, including this reporter. A couple of points ring true in his article. One- Pathfinders were the first in for the Ranger mission. Yes, that's what Pathfinders do. This doesn't make them more "special". They have a short school that teaches them all about indentifying and securing drop zones for Air Assault/Airborne missions. They can do "cool stuff" like build an air assault platform in the tops of trees for jungle Air Assault missions. There is a lot of inter-service rivalry and I could imagine some Pathfinders being POed about the Rangers taking "first in" honors.

The next is- I read this article to refer to two different missions (but perhaps related). This would account for a lot of the confusion about the Rangers getting beat up in their raid although they had video showing a "low stress" operation (please don't take me wrong on low stress). If one thinks on the Ranger drop as being a distraction and cover for the Delta mission- it makes sense.

But bottom line- I can't imagine the reporter got his info directly from Delta. Maybe third or fourth hand with some truth behind it but not directly.

211 posted on 11/03/2001 12:20:33 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
Excellent post ! Perhaps that will seperate alot of the bs on this thread , the silly double posting etc . Should serve as an excellent tool for a quick education to others . Again , my hat is off to you .
221 posted on 11/03/2001 12:56:00 PM PST by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: Prodigal Son
You sir are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you .
222 posted on 11/03/2001 1:00:40 PM PST by lawdog
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To: Prodigal Son
Thank you for taking the time to write this.

I also want to thank you for your service to our country.

232 posted on 11/03/2001 2:11:27 PM PST by Kanell
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To: Prodigal Son
One other thing that everyone seems to miss. Every war has it's learning curve. The people who are in command at the start of a war are seldom the ones in at the end. The USMC was still teaching troops to charge into an ambush in '70, and were still using LAAW rockets, although only one in three would actually fire...

There are tricks of the trade that will keep you alive. The problem is that each of these tricks and bits of knowledge comes at the cost of the lives of your buddies. The ones that worked in I Corps back in '69 won't work in Kandahar 30 years later. Some times they live, most times they don't.

The people on the ground now are at the start of theat learning curve.

One other thing. The trooper who is not frightened the first time they hear that 'WHACK' sound when a bullet goes by is a sociopath.

235 posted on 11/03/2001 2:50:36 PM PST by jonascord
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To: Prodigal Son
I don't know about that not talkin stuff. I was at camp Bullis when Delta was still doing their weapons training there. I was there mowing lawns for two weeks because the OSI had lost my backround check. They talked about everything. We were under strict orders to be in the Barracks at 9PM. It didn't stop anyone from climbing out the windows and going to town to go get drunk, in fact one of the DI's joined them. A few got caught sneaking in at the wee hours of the morning, most did not. Has it really changed that much, I think not.
242 posted on 11/03/2001 3:11:52 PM PST by SSN558
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