Posted on 11/10/2001 6:34:55 AM PST by Keyes For President
The point should be obvious....she either knows how you voted based on WHAT SHE SAW or WHAT YOU TOLD HER YOU DID. If she didn't see you actually mark your ballot, then she is merely spouting words based on what she was told, factual or not! No rocket science involved.
This is turning into a real hoot.....Howlin has a penchance for not responding to inquiries based on her idea of 'she don't have to answer nothin'...and then has turned around and demanded answers....and now you want to start 'demanding' answers!
Paul was blinded for three days and repented; I haven't seen that same repentance from Dr. Keyes.
Is it some kind of rule amongst Keyesters that the ruder you get, the more you use terms of endearment, such as "Hugs", "Regards", "Sweetie", "Dear Heart", "God Bless", etc.?
Rowdee, if you want a private answer from Howlin, I'd suggest you send her a FReepmail. As long as you are posting on the open forum, it's fair game for anyone to reply, and since it's MY VOTES in question, I'd say I have more right than anyone to have a say.
By the way, ARE you on some sort of mind-altering substance, Rowdee? You don't seem totally rational.
We are in a war. Most of us are, mostly, on the same side of what must be done, and why.
There is no good in sparring with people who are bitter about Keyes and what he says, even, or most of all, when it is in line with what GWB says.
I truly believe you do best to ignore attacks on you, and to moderate your own tone. There is enough sorrow and bitterness to go around, and your breath only serves to fan the flame.
Defend what Keyes says in the column, if you think it right. Show that you think it to be in accord with the GWB policy, if you think it true.
Don't respond to baiting from irrational and bitter folks.
Best to you and all,
Richard F.
I was hoping I read your reply before it was responded to so I could give you a word of warning.
Your only insult was to not trash Keyes. By responding with honesty you were opening up yourself for attack. You will be accused of scurrilous motives because "others" will know what "you really meant."
Good to see one of my all time favorite FReepers again!
:-)
AARGH!
First I understood DaughterOAIJVet to agree with me the Gelato's remarks were not insulting -- it was the second response that was insulting. So the point I was trying to get clear about was indeed cleared up and it appears that I wasn't so far off base.
And here, I think, we have a problem with judging the person instead of the deed. If you disagree with something I said, or with my understanding of somebody else's remark then, it seems, I should take that as an insult?
Yes, If DOAIJVet thought Gelato was insulting her (which, I say again, she later said she did NOT think) then I think she was mistaken. I have little or no clue who DOAIJVet is (though I've enjoyed her posts) and, well, I have been known to make a mistake and I don't think I'm pond scum. My friends point out my mistakes to me and if they think I'm pond scum they're hiding it really well.
Does every disagreement mean we HAVE to think the person we're disagreeing with is a bad person? Is every disagreement about something somebody says or thinks a personal insult? I don't think so.
I guess, along with not thinking every disagreement an insult, I also see gradations and shades in failures of communication. I may be imprecise. I may be inaccurate.
Often when I tell an anecdote I exaggerate wildly - "remembering big", we call it in my family. Often I say what is not so, sometimes in error and sometimes on purpose.
I agree that "extreme exaggeration" is a pretty heavy-duty thing to say about what somebody says in a discussion. But I do not agree that it is the same as saying something is a lie. I know that if someone characteried something I said as an exaggeration I wouldn't be half as upset as I would if he were to characterize it as a lie.
If you say I told a lie, you are saying something about my intention. If you say I said something untrue, what I intended remains to be seen. I could have thought it was true.
Finally, you think that to criticize someone's actions is to criticize the person. But I do not think so. I may be wrong and maybe you cannot criticize a deed without making and articulating a judgement about the doer. But since I do not agree with you, presently I do not consciously intend to insult a person when I disagree with them - or even when I think they've done something wrong. I suppose you could say I have a lack of insight and do not understand my own motives. But when I say, "That was a pretty jerky thing to do," I think that is very different from saying, "You're a jerk."
I guess I've flogged this issue to death. Sorry. Anyway, I hope DoaIJvet does not think I insulted her.
I see the same old silliness, it is a shame. Keyes' article was very good and went to the heart of the war we are in. Bush may state this is not a war against Islam, but Keyes is able to take that concept and articulate it with depth. This is not a slam against Bush, just a statement of fact.
Your friend, Sue!
Is that your idea of how to get off to a good start, implying that even though she may be right, never mind?
Some of us don't need things explained to them six ways from Sunday; evidently the rest of you all do.
Well, as long as SOMEBODY knows, huh? ;)
Thanks for kind words.
Don't respond to baiting from irrational and bitter folks.
In fact, I'm sure that had I followed this advice, this thread would be at least 9 posts shorter now.
You are more than welcome!
Have you dropped by the Declaration Foundation site? I wish everyone in this argument would. They'd see that on that forum, run by a foundation whose Chairman is Alan Keyes, there is no "party line" attacking the current US Administration or its head.
Anyway, to return the chief thing on my mind, do you see any way for us all to use the Keyes columns more fruitfully, and to avoid our unhappy past spats?
Cheers,
Richard F.
Forgive my ignorance, but are you some sort of moderator? I certainly hope you don't feel responsible for other people's posts on either side of this argument, because you're not - but you certainly seem to be attempting to get control over this conversation - not just now, but ever since the very first group of posts. I don't say this with malice; it's just that it seems to me that if you want to be productive and civil, be that. Assuming we're all adults here, I think we're all capable of finding those parameters for ourselves - unless, of course, you are officially in charge or something. If you are, please forgive my questioning you.
No, I do not see how to keep the exchanges constructive unless posters simply ignore those whose only intent is to make personal attacks or engage in exchanges that are not the subject matter of the thread.
I have decided to not respond to any one who is not interested in an honest exchange of thought. I have no use for the petty, viperish behavior that invades Keyes threads. I do not read the replies on 99% of the threads posted with the exception of Keyes threads. And the only reason I read those replies is because of the wonderful posters who frequent Keyes threads. You, are of course, one of those wonderful posters and someone I respect.
I will give this some thought and let you know if I come up with anything. Nice talking with you! Sue
You know I used to belong a religious cult over 10 years ago and this what they say to former members, that they must be "bitter."
What evidence can you provide to prove that we are bitter?
The only thing I see is that we disagree with Keyes opinion that Bush is "evil."
I am not a FR moderator, and don't mean to assert an authority I don't have, or to suggest I can compel anyone to do anything.
My entire purpose on this thread has been to try, in my own posts, to moderate the tone of the recent Keyes column discussions, and to ask others to do the same, sometimes by exhoration or a mild word of rebuke.
I'm sorry if my manner of doing this offended you. No offense was meant.
We haven't met on the forum before, so I take the liberty of telling you my insititutional connection to Keyes: I am the President of The Declaration Foundation, and Keyes is the Chairman of that foundation. You can see the nature of our work by dropping by the site.
Best to you,
Richard F.
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