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First off: I do like Java. I like the language. I just don't like the fact that it can be slow at times. That, and I get annoyed when people ignore problems with Java because they hope that somehow Java will someday be able to slay the beast that is Microsoft.

Tens of thousands use Java applets all day every day, and don't find them slow. Go there and play 'Spades', 'Chess', 'Hearts', or a few dozen others.

Oh, don't get me started on Yahoo's Chess applet. I have used that one, and I've lost track of how many times I've lost games because the applet crashed.

As for Java applets in general, I don't really think that applets is where Java wants to be heading for the future. If Java wants to do well as a language, it has got to be capable of taking some of the market that C++ and VB currently have.

And as far as evaluating some Java applets myself, I have. I am currently evaluating some applets used for web report generation.

It is, to put it mildly, pretty useless. Takes far, far too long to do simple queries that even MS Access (ACCESS!!!!) can handle in a few seconds. And as far as I can knew, it's not because of the way it was written.

I'm not the only guy who's saying this. And I find it odd that Linux supporters who constantly bash MS for going on the attack for any slight against their product, no matter so small, can't accept a little criticism when it comes to Java.

It's the hottest thing in corporate IT, but it needs a high-speed connection to really come into it's own. So consumers won't see what we're using in corps until high-speed internet access penetrates the market.

Sorry, I forgot to make a comment on this one in my last post.

Saying that it just needs faster machines to work properly isn't what I'd call a selling point. The point is, similar apps written in C++ will run more quickly on current machines with current connection speeds then will Java. Hell, even ones written in VB will.

From what I understand, a large part of the problem stems from the fact that Java is an interpreted language and not a compiled one. If it were, it'd be faster and we wouldn't be arguing over Java's relative merits.

Oh, don't get me started on Yahoo's Chess applet. I have used that one, and I've lost track of how many times I've lost games because the applet crashed.

Now I wonder about you . . . I play Yahoo's Chess applet about 6 or 8 games a week, and have for about 2 years. It's never *once* crashed on me. I asked around on the chat part there this morning, and no one else has *ever* had any crash problems.

That is, in fact, one of the biggest plusses in Java -- things that are run time errors in other languages are compiler errors in Java. The 'exception handling' is almost foolproof.

Now I have to wonder about the veracity of your claims.

I'm not the only guy who's saying this.

You'd be the only person outside the 'Microsoft only' world to say this. Slower than Access?

Either you've got a *very* poorly written tool, or else you're not being honest. Your above claims about Yahoo Chess make me wonder, since a Java applet almost *can't* crash unless sheer stupidity on the developers part. And, as I said, there has been *no* such reported problem as what you claim.

Java *is already* beating VB and C++ at their own game. You should check a few of those links I just posted, and evaluate some of those. Start with the Microsoft Zone, if you wish to stay within the confines of MS.