Suspect accused of vandalizing Confederate flag in Mizzou dorm

STL Today ^ | 11/21/2001 11:19 AM | ap

[Godebert]

"Show me where I said I was tough. I said I've been in more situations than most."

Ok tuff-guy.....whatever you say. Just don't hurt me please.

[#3Fan]

Ok tuff-guy.....whatever you say. Just don't hurt me please.

Where did I say I was going to hurt you?

[Godebert]

"Where did I say I was going to hurt you?"

I don't know...did you say that? Where did I say that I was an "athiest"?

[wku man]

Welcome aboard, bro. I understand completely what he's saying, and he and you are certainly entitled to your opinions. But like the story of the blind men feeling the elephant and describing it, the flag flap is another case of different folks seeing the same thing in differrent ways.

What makes me believe that this is nothing but a contrived argument for political gain is that it's never been an issue until the last four or five years. I grew up in Kentucky, Georgia and North Carolina. My friends were of all colors, and never...NOT ONCE did anyone say the Confederate battle flag was a symbol of racism, slavery, bad personal hygeine, or whatever they're saying about it now. The likes of Jesse Jackass, Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and their dunderheaded liberal white sycophants realize they can score political points, and keep themselves in the political spotlight a while longer by attacking a symbol that Southerners hold near and dear. After all, even in this era of PC, Southerners are fair game to villify.

Now, as to what the flag stands for, I'm sorry if anyone TRULY sees it as a symbol of hate, slavery, etc. To me, it symbolizes many things about the South, some of which I outlined in an earlier response. No mater where I travel in this beautiful nation of ours, if I see the Confederate flag on a sticker, a shirt, hat or wherever, I feel a bit closer to home. To look at it no more fills me with hate for my fellow man than does looking at bumper sticker bearing the Congolese, Mexican, or any other flag. To use the same illogic of the flag-banners, I should feel threatened by black people wearing shirts, hats or jewelry showing their pride in their African ancestry. Using the same illogic, I should see these things as a warning that blacks are going to take over and submit all whites to their African-style rule. But I don't because I have a brain, know how to use it, and do so on a daily basis.

If you'll indulge me just a bit longer, let me say again that if anyone TRULY feels threatened by MY Confederate flag, I'm sorry. I'm sorry because they don't see it as a symbol of a beautiful region of the country, with strong traditions of family, God, individualism, hard work, love of country, great cooking, beautiful women, great football, Mardi Gras, the Kentucky Derby, etc. They choose to see it as a symbol of a horrible mistake which was rectified over a hundred years ago. I'm sorry because these brain stems choose to live in the past instead of seeing what the South is today. I will not take down my flag because they have their heads up their fourth point of contact (ask an Army guy if you don't know what that means). If they hate the South so much, I invite them to visit another wonderful part of our nation and settle there. I'll enjoy fishing in the Tampa Bay in January while wearing a T-shirt and shorts!

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[Non-Sequitur]

And you, sir, are a bald-faced liar. You have provided no such evidence. And if it exists feel free to post it again.

[#3Fan]

Where did I say that I was an "athiest"?

Is this why you went on a three-thread tough-talking rampage against me? LOL You've said it on many a thread of yore. Did you change your mind and become a Christian?

[Non-Sequitur]

Lincoln was privately a very irreligious man who mocked preachers and sermons. He also had a very vulgar and foul mouth like Nixon and Clinton.

Your source for this?

[Non-Sequitur]

So you have either proven that Lincoln was as good and Lee when it comes to race relations or else that Lee was as bad as Lincoln. I'm not sure which.

[Non-Sequitur]

...as there are far too many ...scholars...who KNOW the TRUTH

Surely you don't include yourself in the scholar category. Not with the glaring inaccuracies and outright falsehoods present in your posts?

[Non-Sequitur]

You know, it's only a flag. A rectangular piece of cloth made of fabric in three colors. It will mean one thing to folks like wku man and billbears, and other things to you and illbay. But in the end it's just a flag. It may make shuckmaster all misty-eyed and cause stande waite to foam at the mouth and prompt my very good friend WhiskyPapa to dive into his extensive supply of quotes but in the end it is still just a flag. It hurts people only if they let it hurt them. And if it does hurt them then they have let those who may misuse it's symbolism win. I don't care if they fly it, don't fly it, or what ever. To me it is still just a flag. It means nothing to me and I'm not going to pass judgement if it means something to someone else.

[rockfish59]

i'll bet you support robert byrd!

[#3Fan]

i'll bet you support robert byrd!

No, what does that have to do with how many supported full integration in 1860?

[Rambro]

Re: I joined this thread late but I will try to answer your question in #50 about U.S.Grant holding slaves in 1866 (after the ratification of the 13th Amendment). I do not profess to be an authority on Gen. Grant. It is my understanding that his wife, not he, inherited the slaves (just as R.E.Lee's wife did). BTAIM, he clearly had no problem with the concept of slavery.

The 13th Amendment was not ratified until Dec. 18, 1865 (with the votes of all the former Confederate States except Miss.). Ironcially, all of those Southern state governments were then declared illegal because they included former Confederates.

Section 2 of the 13th Amendment gives Congress the "power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." Presumably Congress did not get around to passing that legislation until some time in 1866, so I don't doubt that many slaves in the border states and territories continued to be held until then. No doubt many former slaves stayed with their former masters even after emancipation, having no where else to go.

I really don't know if this applies to Gen. & Mrs. Grant or not, but it is an answer to your question.

[rockfish59]

byrd is a 'good guy' now and was taken under the democrat wing despite being a klan member!
he's fully supported by the likes of boxer & barney frank.

typical double standard hypocrisy of the phony left!

[#3Fan]

typical double standard hypocrisy of the phony left!

True. No I don't support Byrd, nor his little dog "billie". :^)

[Non-Sequitur]

I've read up on Grant a lot. As you probably can tell I'm one of the stronger pro-Union people on this thread and I can give you several reasons why stande waite's post is nothing but a lie. In the first place there is Grant's own correspondence which indicates that the slaves in question - owned by his father-in-law - were freed in 1863. Second there is no record that Mrs. Grant was accompanied by any of the slaves when she visited Grant at his headquarters in late 1863 or 1864. Third there is the fact that the state of Missouri (Mrs. Grant's home of record) amended its constitution to outlaw slavery. That amendment took effect in January 1865. Following the war Grant and his wife lived briefly in Philidelphia and then in Washington, D.C., both of which outlawed slavery prior to the end of the war. In short, there is no way that Grant could have owned a slave during or after the war without documentation and I have yet to see any.

[wku man]

Look, I'm getting tired of rehashing the same thing over and over again. The facts are 1) the Confederate flag means different things to some as to others, 2) what you say it stands for hasn't existed for 136 years, 3) this "offensensitivity" to the flag is a new phenomenon, created in recent years by racist radicals as a means to prolong their national exposure and therefore their power, and 4) my flag, and "millions" of other Southerners' flags, aren't coming down. Anyone who's "offended" can attempt to tear it down at their own risk. I wouldn't advise it, though.

One parting thought, then I'm off this thread for good...how about that "national unity"? We ARE a house divided, and non-issues like this flag flap are only serving to further drive a wedge between Americans. Be well, friend, and Merry Christmas.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!