New Federal Patriot Act Turns Retailers into Spies against Customers

The Boston Globe ^ | 11/28/2001 | By Scott Bernard Nelson, The Boston Globe

[MissAmericanPie]

Yup, here ya go, peppermint flavor, very rare.

[Smogger]

This new law should not trouble anyone except someone with something to hide.

Plenty of people have things to hide. Wanting to conceal information about yourself does not make you a criminal. At least last time I checked. For example. We all conceal are real identities on this forum.

[JD86]

It's cumulative...like in one day. For instance, using the example in the article. Buying something for $4,000, paying cash...something for $4,000 and something for $4,000. Three purchases, each under the radar if made separately...but three made in the same store, same day...counts as over $10,000 in cash purchases.

[Smogger]

This actually scares me a little more:

Making a series of transactions just below the $10,000 filing threshold is also illegal under the new law if it's done to keep a business from contacting the government

hehehehe... It's AGAINST the LAW to attempt to conceal your activities from us.

[Smogger]

It's cumulative...like in one day.

Who says one day? The article? The law? My impression is that it could be cumulative over one week. One month? One year?

I don't think it would do much good if it was only cumulative for one day. Tax evaders (er.. I mean terrorist) would simply spread their purchases out over a week.. month.. etc...

[JD86]

Making a series of transactions just below the $10,000 filing threshold is also illegal under the new law if it's done to keep a business from contacting the government

That was made law when the drug dealers starting getting money orders for $8,000 or $9,000....just to stay under the $10,000 notification point. As another poster has said,(pcl) most of these laws were written to catch people who were laundering money....that's also where the accumulation provision comes in.

[JD86]

I have not looked at the law lately...but from memory, I think the cash purchases were cumulative for a day. I may be wrong. I know in financial transactions they look at a day and also a pattern...like pcl pointed out of daily transactions of cash that are just under the $10,000 threshold but are not warranted for the type of business or are out of the ordinary. If someone else knows for sure, please post.

[exodus]

To: Mercuria
"...Remember: "We're all in this together."
# 2 by nunya bidness
************

Yes, and "We're at war," too.

To paraphrase,
"We have met Lucianne.com, and we are it."

[JD86]

If anyone comes on and gives an explanation why they think this law violates the 4th Amendment, please ping me. Thanks.

[EverOnward]

You made too much sense on your post no. 20 -- you know you're in for it now . . .

[ninenot]

The same $10,000 reporting requirement for banks has been in effect for retailers with large ticket items like: boats, homes, cars, planes, etc.

Yeah, but not for high-volume purchases of, say, Kotex. This will be living hell for Sears and the furniture stores, or the jewelers. I mean, c'mon--what's $10K in the tool area of Sears?

[kristinn]

The U.S. Postal Service already does this. The threshold is much lower. $3,000, I believe.

[robnoel]

Allow me to set you and all others straight ...the $10,000.00 reporting requirment means anything the US Treasury deems as cash....ie...bank checks (not drawn on your bank) money orders,cash,gold,silver pre 64 US coins the only thing not classified as cash is a personal check...it has your name on it! As a business owner I am required to keep all cash transactions on the books for a full calender year from date of purchase if the client exceeds $10,000.00 in purchases using anything but a personal check it becomes reportable Who Must File Form 8300?

[F.J. Mitchell]

I am unable to see how this can be a problem with people making a legitimate purchase for personal use or gifts. I have nothing to hide from anyone.

[angry elephant]

>Immigrants and the working poor are the most likely to find themselves in the database, since they tend to use the traditional banking system the least.

If the working poor have $10,000 in cash to spend at one time, we should all be so poor.

[RightOnline]

Now y'all just wait a minute here.........I fully expected to get flamed beyond the ability of asbestos to withstand on this thread; you're screwin' 'round with my expectations. :)

God bless y'all. It's SO refreshing to run into those with the ability to consider a different point of view......and really consider it.

[exodus]

From the article;
"...Immigrants and the working poor
are the most likely to find themselves in the database,
since they tend to use the traditional banking system the least..."
*******************

To: Smogger
"Translation:
Immigrants use their informal 'cultural' banking systems
so they dont have to pay taxes.
# 3 by Dialup Llama
************

You have no memory, Dialup Llama.

The old folks back in the "good ol' days"
didn't hide their money in mattresses to avoid taxes.
They put the money in the mattress
because they didn't trust banks, or bankers.

I can't think of any reason that an immigrant
would have to trust the federal government.
It doesn't matter whether the immigrant is legal or illegal,
his best interests are served by avoiding
the attention of government officials.

He doesn't trust them, and with good reason.

[angry elephant]

Good post.

[robnoel]

Forgot to ad....the only difference with this new expanded reporting reqirment in the "patriot act"is that it gives immunity from lawsuits if a business blows a call in reporting you to a federal agency....