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To: exodus
Here
148 posted on 11/24/2001 12:14:31 AM PST by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
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Was there a Congressional Declaration of War on the Barbary Pirates? ( Maybe not!)
by Texasforever

What We Have Been Told About the Declaration Of War On The Barbary Pirates Appears To Be Wrong

One of the more frustrating debates about this “war on terrorism” being discussed on the forum has been the legitimacy of Bush’s recent actions in light of the fact that Congress has not formally issued a “Declaration of War”. It is argued by a large contingent of libertarians and paleo-conservatives that all military actions and presidential powers exercised as the Commander in Chief in war time require this formal declaration by Congress to meet Constitutional muster. The other side, the “Bushies” for lack of a better term, argue that this is a different circumstance from any we have ever faced and that we are at “war” with a virtually faceless enemy and we have no idea from one day to the next where and in what country he will rear his ugly head and in which country we will be forced to assert military power in order to stop future terrorist activity...

From my research I have found that indeed war was declared on the Barbary Pirates, it was declared by President Jefferson, just as President Bush has declared war on terrorism. However; the Congress never formally declared war on the BP, in fact no lesser person than Alexander Hamilton stated outright that a formal declaration of war was NOT required when the nation was attacked by a foreign enemy and it was that interpretation that Congress embraced at the time. The Congress passed a joint resolution authorizing Jefferson to act much in the same way as the Terrorism Joint Resolution authorized President Bush to assume war footing as Commander In Chief..."

The result of these conflicting considerations was that the Convention amended the clause so as to give Congress the power to ''declare war...

An early controversy revolved about the issue of the President's powers and the necessity of congressional action when hostilities are initiated against us rather than the Nation instituting armed conflict. The Bey of Tripoli, in the course of attempting to extort payment for not molesting United States shipping, declared war upon the United States, and a debate began whether Congress had to enact a formal declaration of war to create a legal status of war. President Jefferson sent a squadron of frigates to the Mediterranean to protect our ships but limited its mission to defense in the narrowest sense of the term. Attacked by a Tripolitan cruiser, one of the frigates subdued it, disarmed it, and, pursuant to instructions, released it. Jefferson in a message to Congress announced his actions as in compliance with constitutional limitations on his authority in the absence of a declaration of war....

Hamilton espoused a different interpretation, contending that the Constitution vested in Congress the power to initiate war but that when another nation made war upon the United States we were already in a state of war and no declaration by Congress was needed. Congress thereafter enacted a statute authorizing the President to instruct the commanders of armed vessels of the United States to seize all vessels and goods of the Bey of Tripoli ''and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify . . .''But no formal declaration of war was passed, Congress apparently accepting Hamilton's view..."
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Wonderful history, Texasforever.

I knew of the Barbery Pirates, but I never thought of it as a "war."
To me it was more of a self-defence reflex, hitting back after being attacked by a bully.

I was young, in junior high school when I read of the fight. I always thought of the Pirates as just that, pirates, not a nation. It would be like a street gang declaring war on the United States. At the time, to me the Pirates destruction was justified under the President's authority to defend American citizens.

Your article is the first I heard of a Congressional question of War Powers.
My view-

1)
If the Barbary Pirates were nothing but bandits, a Declaration of War would not be needed. Congress would direct the President to act, under the authority granted it by Article 1, Section 8, Clause 10 of the Constitution.

2)
If the Barbary Pirates were in fact a nation, a Declaration of War against that Pirate nation would be necessary, as required by Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11 of the Constitution.

From what I understand of your article, The Pirates were considered a nation in their own right. Thus, a Congressional Declaration of War would have been necessary.

Thomas Jefferson understood those Congressional limitations.
Alexander Hamilton was wrong.

154 posted on 11/24/2001 1:19:08 AM PST by exodus
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To: Texasforever
And what, pray tell, does catching Barbary Pirates have to do with 99% of the Patriot Act?

The argument is, these measures are 'necessary' because they can help 'prevent terrorism', eh? Hey, why stop there? Curfews and martial law will help even more. Biochip implants and a central tracking system will do wonders too. We're at 'War', right? Combine it with the War On Drugs and War On Crime. Maybe invent some new ones, like a War On Hate against nasty hateful racist people suggesting we scrutinize Middle Eastern immigrant airport workers a little more closely. Maybe we can find all the hateful, druggie, criminal terrorists at once, and start winning some of these mythical 'Wars'.

It's for 'the children', you know.

160 posted on 11/24/2001 2:24:19 AM PST by Dr.Deth
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