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Naughty children to be registered as potential criminals
Telegraph.co.uk ^ | 25 November, 2001 | David Bamber

Posted on 11/25/2001 1:24:43 PM PST by Servant of the Nine

THE police are to set up a secret database of children as young as three who they fear might grow up to become criminals.

Youngsters who behave badly or commit trivial misdemeanours will be put on the confidential register so that they can be monitored and supervised throughout childhood.

The controversial initiative is to be pioneered in 11 London boroughs from March and then expanded nationally. Any child who is thought to be at risk of committing a crime by the police, schools or social services, will be put on the database.

Children involved in cheekiness, minor vandalism and causing nuisances, will be targeted under the scheme.

Their progress will then be monitored at school and on the streets by special squads of police officers and social workers, even though the children have not committed a crime and will not have been warned that they are being watched.

Ian Blair, the deputy commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said that the register was needed because of a rise in youngsters turning to violent crime.

The plan grew out of the Damilola Taylor murder investigation on a grim council estate in south London last year. There detectives came across dozens of wild and unruly children who - outside the scope of the present law - were in danger of becoming criminals.

Mr Blair said: "We have identified 11 London boroughs where youth crime is growing most significantly.

"With partners in those boroughs, we intend to create an intelligence nexus which will hold sensitive information about large numbers of children, many of whom have not yet and probably will not drift into criminal activity."

He admitted: "This is pretty revolutionary stuff. There will be lots of worries but as long as it is understood that the purpose of holding this information is to ensure that we should collectively intervene to prevent children from becoming criminal I think that it will be accepted."

He said that schools and social services already had information about young children in danger of becoming criminals but at the moment they did not share this with the police.

He said that the scheme had been inspired by the murder of Damilola, 10, in Southwark. Several youngsters have now been charged with his murder.

Mr Blair said: "With no specific or necessary connection to the individuals charged, the inquiry team found that in some parts of Southwark there was a feeding chain leading to rampant criminality, a mixture of abuse, victimisation and criminality.

"Children who had, Fagin-like, been coerced and taught to steal, children who rose to prominence within their peer group by dint of theft and violence.

"It is not an exaggeration to note that, for some of these children, street gangs provided a safer and more caring environment than their homes or classrooms."

Mr Blair, who has unveiled his plans to the Government's Youth Justice Board, said the inquiry team found evidence of children who had been abused at home and who were subject to bullying and muggings at school and close to home.

He said it had always been thought improper to share information but it was now essential because this could sometimes prevent crimes being committed against children.

He added: "We are aware of examples from within London where caring professionals have been told in confidence by children that they have been victims of quite serious crimes."

The proposal is being examined by Elizabeth France, the Information Commissioner, but the police are confident that it will not breach existing laws. Last night, Liberty, the organisation that campaigns for civil liberties, expressed concern about the plan.

Roger Bingham, the Liberty spokesman, said: "We have a number of concerns about the proposals. For a start, what kind of behaviour will result in being put on this register?

"Who will have access to it, and who will decide whether children go on it or come off it? The aims of the idea might be to reduce crime but there are serious libertarian worries."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: biometrics
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This is what happens when you elect Liberals

So9

1 posted on 11/25/2001 1:24:43 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: MadIvan
A watch-out-here-comes-Big-Brother PING!
2 posted on 11/25/2001 1:30:18 PM PST by petuniasevan
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To: Servant of the Nine
It's also what happens when you have massive family breakdown.
3 posted on 11/25/2001 1:30:19 PM PST by independentmind
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To: Servant of the Nine
The need to experiment with this program in some area in which the worst possible liberal program could not conceivably make matters worse than they are. New York and New Jersey offer potential sites for the experiment. In the Washington D.C region, you could take Kentland, i.e. the area about halfway between the beltway and the place where 295, 50, and the BW Parkway come togetgher on route 50 in Md. I'd be curious to hear whether any of those kids would avoid both the "future criminal" tag and the "too stupid to become a criminal" tag.
4 posted on 11/25/2001 1:33:46 PM PST by medved
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To: Servant of the Nine
He said it had always been thought improper to share information but it was now essential because this could sometimes prevent crimes being committed against children.

The Almighty Police State - It's ok because were doing it for the children.

5 posted on 11/25/2001 1:37:41 PM PST by Dakmar
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To: Servant of the Nine
Tom Sawyer is in serious trouble!
6 posted on 11/25/2001 1:37:43 PM PST by Restorer
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To: All
OMG this is TERRIFYING - How much more of this raping are the British going to TAKE???? HOMESCHOOL!!!! BTW can they homeschool over there or is that illegal (wouldn't surprise me)
7 posted on 11/25/2001 1:38:38 PM PST by GussiedUp
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To: Servant of the Nine
Great, so now a kid is labeled a criminal element because of something he/she does at the age of 3.
8 posted on 11/25/2001 1:38:44 PM PST by Hillary 666
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To: GussiedUp
They can home school over there and studies have been done showing that homeschoolers in England do better than kids in the schools, even if their parents aren't well educated themselves.
9 posted on 11/25/2001 1:42:40 PM PST by bettina0
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To: Restorer
" Tom Sawyer is in serious trouble!"

But Ted Bundy would be in the clear. He was an exemplary student.

10 posted on 11/25/2001 1:44:03 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: Servant of the Nine
As soon as I saw the headline, I thought, "England."
11 posted on 11/25/2001 1:44:21 PM PST by Timesink
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To: Restorer
Tom Sawyer is in serious trouble!

No kidding. Some of the wildest kids I grew up with are now some of the most well adjusted adults.

12 posted on 11/25/2001 1:46:27 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Restorer
Tom Sawyer is in serious trouble!

He Sure Is!
Glad I'm not a kid these days.
13 posted on 11/25/2001 1:46:38 PM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: Hillary 666
Nixon wanted to do this when he was President. He wanted five-year-olds to be reported if they had violent tendencies. It didn't go anywhere because people were horrified. People are less horrified today. Today, we have a computer data base called "Mosaic," used by school systems to check out students to see if they are potential criminals. Try to get your kid's name off a data base. It will follow him for the rest of his life. There is something to say for homeschooling, isn't there?
14 posted on 11/25/2001 1:46:45 PM PST by bettina0
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To: Servant of the Nine
I wonder if the ex-rapist-in-chief's Oxford records will be reviewed for this one. Somehow, I don't think so.
15 posted on 11/25/2001 1:46:48 PM PST by Paul Atreides
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To: Servant of the Nine
Children involved in cheekiness, minor vandalism and causing nuisances, will be targeted under the scheme.

Cheekiness? Minor vandalism? Causing nuisances?
This is truly frightening.

16 posted on 11/25/2001 1:47:27 PM PST by EggsAckley
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To: Servant of the Nine
Children involved in cheekiness...

I'm sorry, but when I hear this word, I can't help but think of Mike Myers portraying "Simon" the little British kid on Saturday Night Live.

17 posted on 11/25/2001 1:48:57 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Servant of the Nine
If they can be identified, why not go ahead and put them in prison now? (Sarcasm)
18 posted on 11/25/2001 1:50:06 PM PST by proudofthesouth
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To: Servant of the Nine
I guess that the "It'll stay on you permanent record..." threat is no longer just a threat?!?
19 posted on 11/25/2001 1:50:23 PM PST by spanky_mcfarland
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To: Servant of the Nine
Hmmmmm. Behavioral profiling?
20 posted on 11/25/2001 1:51:12 PM PST by rogers21774
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To: Servant of the Nine
To say this is ridiculous is an understatement.
21 posted on 11/25/2001 1:54:01 PM PST by pubmom
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To: Kalashnikov_68
I'm sorry, but when I hear this word, I can't help but think of Mike Myers portraying "Simon" the little British kid on Saturday Night Live.

Me too. It's almost funny until you remember the people who are coming up with this stuff. They think nothing of having a government database keeping records on childhood "cheekiness" but would probably want to throw parents in prison if they spanked their kids for the same.

22 posted on 11/25/2001 2:01:51 PM PST by Hugin
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To: Servant of the Nine
Children involved in cheekiness, minor vandalism and causing nuisances, will be targeted under the scheme.

This is just the first step.

Next, it will be expanded to include kids who supposedly have "ADD" or other "mental disorders".

Then, it will expand to include kids from homes with "religious extremists" (i.e., Christians) in them.

After that, they'll list the kids who show any independent thought whatsoever. Question authority? Get on the "list". Complete your assignments too quickly? On the "list". Attempt to excel at sports by cutting class to practice in the gym? On the "list".

Of course, by that time, anyone on the list be required to be drugged and electronically monitored 24 hours a day. Those who resist this step will go off to jail. I give it 10 years.

And there isn't a damned thing they Brits can do about it since the so sheepishly and cowardly surrendered their right to self-defense and right to keep guns.

23 posted on 11/25/2001 2:09:42 PM PST by Mulder
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Mulder
How do we know we don't already have something like this in our country? Maybe we just have not found out about it yet.
25 posted on 11/25/2001 2:30:33 PM PST by Jason_b
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To: medved
Re: the "too stupid to become a criminal"

There is no such thing. A lot of these guys end up being Darwin Award contenders or even winners!

26 posted on 11/25/2001 2:30:48 PM PST by Tunehead54
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To: 7OA.D.
Britain our "best ally", never having had a Bill Of Rights

Nit-picking time!

In 1689, as part of the Glorious Revolution which kicked the Stuart family off the English throne, the Parliament passed and William III (of Orange, the new King) signed, a Bill of Rights. It detailed past abuses and instituted new mechanisms to prevent the Crown from becoming tyrannical.

It is beyond question that the Founders had this Bill in mind as a precedent when they came up with out first 10 Constitutional Amendments.

27 posted on 11/25/2001 2:36:09 PM PST by Restorer
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To: bettina0
This reminds me of the hysteria over the Columbine High School shootings. School boards across the country thought it was a real bright idea to provide anonymous phone hotlines so that kids could call and report fellow students that were potentially violent. And these potentially violent kids would be entered in a database and watched.

This whole idea is totally stupid. A student that was mad at another student could call the anonymous phone hotline, report that his schoolyard rival was planning a shooting spree, and then sit back and laugh when the kid gets yanked out of class, arrested, interrogated, and put under surveillance for the rest of his life.

And who will watch after the secret police, which is what the school administration will become? A teacher that has something personal against a kid (think it can't happen?) could make him a target of the secret police for the rest of his life. Is it fair for somebody to fail a background check because they were the school prankster at the age of 8?

28 posted on 11/25/2001 2:36:28 PM PST by Hillary 666
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To: proudofthesouth
If they can be identified, why not go ahead and put them in prison now?

Ha! Wait until they can determine your potential for causing trouble from your DNA. They'll abort you. You'll never make it out of the womb!

29 posted on 11/25/2001 2:37:20 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Mulder
Yes, this is going to happen. After Columbine, everyone got into the act -- people who sell programs such as "Mosaic," which profiles students, to people who manufacture security cameras, metal detectors, digitalized identification cards, etc. One town in NJ is planning to put security cameras in school buses connected to the POLICE STATION. Every child's face will be visible. The excuse is It's for the children. Yeah, right. Columbine was the great excuse to implement these security procedures. September 11 is a further excuse. We now live in a "snitch" culture. Students are expected to tattle on other students, students are expected to divulge their families' secrets to school authorities, and take invasive surveys. Schools have goon squads patrolling the halls. The schools look like minimum security facilities. Teachers have telephones in their classes because they're terrified of their students. If they're so terrified of kids, maybe parents should just keep them at home and let the teachers do something else for a living. There are school districts who ticket and fine students for offenses principals used to take care, and many offenses are based on asinine "zero tolerance" laws. It's here everybody. We now live in a totalitarian society.
30 posted on 11/25/2001 2:41:14 PM PST by bettina0
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To: Native American Female Vet
Ping-a-Ling
31 posted on 11/25/2001 2:41:15 PM PST by Crowned One
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To: Servant of the Nine
Parents are coerced into believing that they must not 'discipline' their children because hands are for loving.

Schools are not allowed to 'discipline' the students because they might get slapped with a law suit.

32 posted on 11/25/2001 2:50:25 PM PST by Slyfox
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To: Jason_b
How do we know we don't already have something like this in our country? Maybe we just have not found out about it yet.

It would not surprise me.

At every level of government, there are a large number of parasites that have no regard for either the law or for our Freedom.

I do expect that will encouter a lot of "difficulty", however, when and if they ever resort to forced drugging or internment.

If they ever cross the line, there are a lot of people who will discover that being an emeny of the Constitution is a very dangerous game, and not one they are likely to prevail at.

33 posted on 11/25/2001 2:56:06 PM PST by Mulder
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To: Servant of the Nine
THE police are to set up a secret database of children as young as three who they fear might grow up to become criminals.

Or, more accurately, "conservatives".

34 posted on 11/25/2001 3:00:01 PM PST by Fintan
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To: Servant of the Nine
Yes, but London is a completely wacked country. Don't get me wrong I've been there many times and I have relatives from England. But Great Britain is run by radical leftists, and the filth of drugs and perverts overrun the city. It's not just Big Ben and The Tower of London, there is a great deal of filth in London. Also in Manchaster and other large cities in Britain. And all of this happened due to the radical leftists taking over the country.
35 posted on 11/25/2001 3:03:47 PM PST by Dengar01
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Servant of the Nine
If they follow the example of the US, they will soon elect conservatives to show how to administer the program more effectively. Seriously, there is little difference between the liberals and conservatives, at the top of the food chain, all of their beliefs are just so much talk. Of course the grassroots believe differently, but they are kept only as tools to be used come election day. The scum/cream always rises to the top.
37 posted on 11/25/2001 3:11:17 PM PST by jeremiah
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To: Mulder
Man, this is rich. But then again, those Brits sure asked for it.

Maybe they'll be asking us to help them with a revolution next time around??

38 posted on 11/25/2001 3:17:21 PM PST by pray4liberty
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To: Slyfox
I agree. And many times it's the brightest and most creative children that need their parents to discipline them more so that they can learn to channel their energy and learn self-control, but so many parents are afraid to discipline these days. Those types of kids may sometimes be the most likely to get in trouble when young, but may turn out to be the most creative assets for society when they mature. Under this scheme, in a liberal country, those bright and creative but undisciplined kids would be labeled for the rest of their lives. Really sad for the kids and for Britain. Mrs. B
39 posted on 11/25/2001 3:17:38 PM PST by boxlunch
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To: 7OA.D.
I don't think Mr. Sedley is thinking of our type of Bill of Rights.

Sedley summarized his views on the value of a bill of rights for Britain ... "There is a dramatic need to match recognition of modern public rights -- to a safe environment, to food and shelter -- with a fresh paradigm of state with enforceable duties to protect people, and of a new generation of civil rights enforceable against bodies both public and private which invade them."

Doesn't sound like Freedom of Speech, Religion, Press, etc. Sounds more touchy-feely. Like all those people who talk about a "right" to housing, medical care, education, etc.

40 posted on 11/25/2001 3:20:40 PM PST by Restorer
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: Servant of the Nine
This does not surprize me. I recommend "The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism is Harming Boys" by Christina Hoff Sommers.
42 posted on 11/25/2001 3:27:23 PM PST by FrdmLvr
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To: Servant of the Nine
F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!----------------

UK

43 posted on 11/25/2001 3:28:34 PM PST by RIGHT IN SEATTLE
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To: Servant of the Nine
AYE. This ain't right. This in the land of the Magna Carta???
44 posted on 11/25/2001 3:31:40 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
No excuse for this, none at all.
45 posted on 11/25/2001 3:32:36 PM PST by Anotherpundit
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To: Thornwell Simons
I'd probably be on that list.
46 posted on 11/25/2001 3:36:39 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Servant of the Nine
.well, there was this kid in Sacramento...next door neighbor whom we've been waiting to see in the news...and not for good things!

Don't bite me...I see the disaster in the concept! I was just posting my first thought...

47 posted on 11/25/2001 3:41:53 PM PST by bannie
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: 7OA.D.
One of the provisions of the 1689 Bill of Rights:

That the subjects which are protestants, may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions, and as allowed by law.

I think it is interesting that in discussions of the Second Amendment, the situation in Europe about who was allowed to bear arms is so seldom brought up. In England it was only Protestants. In France, Spain and Poland it was only Catholic nobles. The same was true throughout the continent - favored groups were allowed to bear arms to help them dominate the unfavored groups.

The Second Amendment cut thru all this by recognizing the right of all the people to bear arms.

49 posted on 11/25/2001 5:41:57 PM PST by Restorer
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To: 7OA.D.
When historical ideas such as British Common Law and Anglo Saxon jurisprudence are bandied about by those who seek for whatever reason to rehabilitate Britain or its commonwealths from their totalitarian pasts, it is often in an attempt to detract attention from the present Britain which is beginning to resemble more and more the former Soviet Union.

Not sure I understand this sentence. What totalitarian pasts?

By conservative American standards; Britain, Australia, NZ, Canada, etc. used to be quite free. FI, arms were as freely available in Britain 100 years ago as in the US. All these countries have lost freedoms in the last 50 years, not gained them.

50 posted on 11/25/2001 5:45:20 PM PST by Restorer
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