Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Kids and Guns - Statistics
familyeducation.com ^ | unknown | familyeducation.com

Posted on 11/26/2001 8:55:36 AM PST by butter pecan fan

Kids and Guns: The Facts

Each year, there are 34,000 gun-related deaths in the U.S. How many of those deaths are children, and has that number increased in the last few years? Here are the facts.

Safety Expert Gavin de Becker has found in researching his books, The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift that:

Researchers at familyeducation.com have collected the following statistics on kids and guns:



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-97 next last
for discussion.
1 posted on 11/26/2001 8:55:36 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
What are the statistics for years way back when, when almost EVERY house had a gun?
Is it possible that the breakdown of the family and education have more to do with this than the amount of guns?
2 posted on 11/26/2001 9:02:53 AM PST by Just another Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: butter pecan fan
And how many of these "children" killed by gunshot - including accidents and suicides - are old enough to legally drive? To legally join the Army?

Centers for Disease Control and National Safety Council statistics suggest almost all! Their statistics find almost nobody under age 15 killed by gunshot in the U.S.; in other words, "child gun deaths" mainly mean kids in their late teens!

Scandals of antigun politicians and activists!

4 posted on 11/26/2001 9:08:23 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan; .45MAN
For the other side, please click on this link to an article posted on the Website, Kep and Bear Arms:

Some of the "Children" Killed By Guns

It really sickens me the way gun-grabbers skew numbers for their benefit. Just read Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime" for the REAL meaning of statistics and how they are mis-used.

5 posted on 11/26/2001 9:09:09 AM PST by dansangel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dansangel
Keep - sorry for the typo
6 posted on 11/26/2001 9:10:00 AM PST by dansangel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
about 75 American children

Let me guess. A 24 year-old is considered a "child" in this statistic.

7 posted on 11/26/2001 9:10:23 AM PST by AppyPappy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sixtycyclehum
why not go after the gangs??

Because, silly, that doesn't allow us to demonize guns, and thereby disarm the entire population. If we go after behavior, and not objects, then we would have to admit that guns really aren't the problem, behavior is. And then we would have to condemn such behavior, and then people might feel bad.

So it's just much easier to go after the guns. /sarcasm

8 posted on 11/26/2001 9:14:15 AM PST by Henrietta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
Yeah, a 24 year old gangbanger. I'm sure they included suicides, and those that are shot by police, too.
9 posted on 11/26/2001 9:14:40 AM PST by Puppage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Everyday, about 75 American children are shot. Most recover –- 15 do not.

Utterly false; debunked years ago. The number correlates to over 27,000 "children" ayear being shot, withnearly 5,500 children a year being killed. CDC reports nothing like this.

The majority of fatal accidents involving a firearm occur in the home.

The majority of fatal accidents involving cars occur on the roads. Totally irrelevant to anything.

Gunshot wounds are the single most common cause of death for women in the home, accounting for nearly half of all homicides and 42 percent of suicides.

Who in the heck is out compiling numbers of "deaths in the home"? Without stating what percentage of deaths occur "in the home" as opposed to everywhere else, this means nothing at all.

An adolescent is twice as likely to commit suicide if a gun is kept in the home.

This is twisted lawyer speak. This statistic seems to want to correlate suicide by any means with gun ownership. Means nothing at all.

More teenage boys in America die from gunfire than from car accidents.

Not likely. almost all "Teenage boys" who are killed by gunfire are gang bangers. Hardly the type who legally possess guns.

Gunshot wounds are now the leading cause of death for teenage boys in America (white, African-American, urban, suburban).

Again, unlikely.

10 posted on 11/26/2001 9:16:00 AM PST by FreeTally
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
Here's the statistical truth about "child gun deaths" - from National Safety Council and Centers for Disease Control numbers, cited in the GUN RIGHTS RESOURCE LIBRARY in Alamance Independent:

"Child gun deaths" being "common" (or a disproportionate share of gunshot fatalities) - the Left says it all the time. It's just not true. According to the National Safety Council, only 869 children under 15 died in 1994 in the U.S. of gunshot wounds, whether as homicides, suicides, or accidentally inflicted.

Such children made up fewer than 2.3% of all gunshot fatalities that year in the U.S. (1994 is the latest year for which statistics are available.)  (To keep some perspective, with Powerball having had 13 people win $12.4 million each in 1998 and an additional 79 win $100,000 each - plus numerous other state lotteries with similar numbers of winners - the odds of a "child" in America being fatally shot is about the odds of his mom winning a major lottery prize.)

Anyone 15 or older hardly fits most Americans' definition of a "child"; at that age, the person is old enough to drive a car on a learner's permit - and within a year, drive by himself. At age 16 in most states, any crime anyone does will be tried in adult court. So the liberal myth of large numbers of "child" gun deaths is just that - a myth. For those most Americans think of as "children," when they do die, it's very unlikely to involve a firearm in any way. According to the Centers for Disease Control, in 1990 (latest statistics), only 1.3% of deaths of children age 1-4 involve guns - and only 3% of deaths of children age 5-9 involve guns.

Scandals of antigun politicians - from coast to coast

11 posted on 11/26/2001 9:23:27 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
I attended a lecture on "children and gun violence" last year.

The speaker, a woman, kept giving these unbelievable statistics regarding "children" and guns.

Finally, on courageous young woman stopped her and asked, "can you please define children".

The speaker said a child was a newborn to 21.

The audience literally collectively gasped.

The speaker tried to regain control but she lost all credibility.

After that, the audience did little more than whisper amongst themselves.

Gun control fanatics use any and every trick to inflate their numbers and hide the circumstances of "childrens" deaths (ie. gang and drug related).

Don't believe their numbers and ask them lots of questions.

12 posted on 11/26/2001 9:25:21 AM PST by SocialMeltdown
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Additional article:

What boys do when they find a gun

13 posted on 11/26/2001 9:25:28 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
First the gun does not kill, liberals and illegal immigrants kill, the WTC proves it after 8 years of liberal rule in Washington. A freeper once mentioned that my keyboard here is not responsible for my spelling mistakes. Indeed.

Gavin De Becker, the messiaha of beat up boys in America who claims most women are victims of attacks by men when we know that is a lie because women repeatedly are allowed in our culture to slap men, on TV and wherever.

Gavin makes rules with statistics while statistics can be tweaked by cultural response to assaults and firearms usage. Since culture views shot kids as bad, it will be reported. Since culture views deterred attacks with guns as good, it never is reported. How many kids were saved by a guns in the home? No one really knows and Gavin ignores it. How many women were saved from abuse when their men did not slap them back after beings slapped by them? We will never know it but it is quite usual, probably much more usual than men beating women because those get reported.

Secondly statistics are not a good reason to make a law or advocate a position since stats are just stats, not true analytical evaluation of a phenomenom. Airplane accident statistics do not tell whether planes are safe or not, only the laws of the air and their verified predictive abilities tell whether planes are safe.

Inherently Guns are safer than planes and cars because they are not self propelled devices and hence are definitely more controlable. What next? Ban cars because most people die driving their own cars? So the government should drive cars because then we would not die from what we own? What a stupid reasoning. This reasoning is even stupider when we realize we own cars to make money, not defend our own lives, hence we kill ourselves for no reasons at all in cars, according to De Becker ans socialites. Beware.

Gavin de Becker as a safety expert is a total a$$. He is no engineer, he is a crytal ball watcher, because, when he was beat continuously by his dad, he "learned" to survive by instinctively predicting when he was going to be hurt, treated like a beast, he is still a beast and has not come out from his reliance on predictive abilities at the expense of analytical look back and true repent. In fact he survived by sheer luck but still insist in his insanity that his instinct and predictive psychic abilities saved him... "sure, Gavin, nice Gavin, why don't you go out and take some fresh air Gavin"

Last but not least, it is abuse and not ownership that should be punished, Gavin better get his a$$ out of my sight if I crossed it, because it is enough that he has removed reasonable doubt against men like me in favor of women, that I am sick and tired of him removing reasonable doubt from a gun owner but not someone piercing their nose abusively with rings.

Oh, and I might add, why was Gavin beat up all the time? He did not have a gun to kill his attacker, that is why, and now he tries to tell us to live a successful life like he did when we know he is lucky because 99% of people that lived his life never actualy lived it.

Gavin is another false prophet, with false cures, without repent, just like his dad, never repenting, abusing the people the way his dad did. He is a psycho selling dangerous cures to people.

14 posted on 11/26/2001 9:30:15 AM PST by lavaroise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
The Shocking Truth About Children and Gun Accidents

"Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media.

In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642.

More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings.

The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence."

(from "Gun Control: Myths and Realities," Cato Institute commentary by David Lampo)

15 posted on 11/26/2001 9:30:41 AM PST by philetus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: glc1173@aol.com
Yes, I have the gunfacts.pdf file. Very good resource. I am glad many are comming to realize how much the gun control crowd makes up crap.
16 posted on 11/26/2001 9:31:21 AM PST by FreeTally
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
An adolescent is twice as likely to commit suicide if a gun is kept in the home.

This is twisted lawyer speak. This statistic seems to want to correlate suicide by any means with gun ownership. Means nothing at all.

This statistic is probably the most interesting to me of the lot. Most of the others seem to be pure fluff, but there might be some meaningful information here. Is anybody familiar with the book named, its author, and particularly the source of this particular statistic?

17 posted on 11/26/2001 9:31:45 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
An adolescent is twice as likely to commit suicide if a gun is kept in the home.

The opposite is true for a telephone or electricity. Amish have lower suicide rates.

18 posted on 11/26/2001 9:35:22 AM PST by AppyPappy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: lavaroise
Thanks for the background info on de Becker. Interesting...
19 posted on 11/26/2001 9:36:10 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
What %kids

What %criminal gang members chosen by the lax nature of juvenile law to be on the front lines that are our streets in our other war, the drug WAR.

20 posted on 11/26/2001 9:37:41 AM PST by PaxMacian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Snip.....Safety Expert Gavin de Becker has found in researching his books, The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift that:

Also, see post #14 for info on the author.

The suicide statistic is silly. With the number of Americans owning guns, one would expect that a high number of suicides may occur in a home with a gun. The number they quote makes me want to shrug my shoulders and say, "So what. Tell me what that means". The author just lets the reader imply that a gun in the home has something to do with one wanting to kill themself.

21 posted on 11/26/2001 9:40:32 AM PST by FreeTally
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: philetus
In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642.

More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings.

Useful stats. Thanks! BTW, what's your source on these? That'll make 'em even MORE useful...

22 posted on 11/26/2001 9:41:08 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Yep. Further proof that statistical data can be altered to prove any point that a person/organization wants to make!
23 posted on 11/26/2001 9:45:03 AM PST by Destructor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
The suicide statistic is silly. With the number of Americans owning guns, one would expect that a high number of suicides may occur in a home with a gun. The number they quote makes me want to shrug my shoulders and say, "So what. Tell me what that means". The author just lets the reader imply that a gun in the home has something to do with one wanting to kill themself.

If it's "correct" as stated, then it's not silly - since it's a "twice as likely to" statistic instead of a "twice as MANY" statistic (which is a kind of statistic people often lie with).

What we AREN'T told (which would be quite helpful) is what the rate is to START with, nor are we given any indication of the sample size. For example, if we were told that one out of 20,000 adolescents in homes without guns commits suicide (but one out of 10,000 in homes with guns, then we have more info there.

It occurs to me as well that buried in this statistic may be the dynamic that adolescents in homes with guns are more likely to SUCCEED at a suicide attempt, for obvious reasons.

Anyway, it would be good to know more about what's behind the stat.

24 posted on 11/26/2001 9:49:11 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
An adolescent is twice as likely to commit suicide if a gun is kept in the home.

The opposite is true for a telephone or electricity. Amish have lower suicide rates.

I suspect that HOW CHILDREN ARE RAISED, as well as the specific personalities of children and parents involved and the specific safety measures taken in a home (I include TRAINING here as a major safety measure) has a GREAT deal to do with EVERYTHING.

25 posted on 11/26/2001 9:49:19 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
"So what. Tell me what that means".

I would tend to agree. Statistics (especially selective statistics) without context are almost meaningless.

I read somewhere once that most people in the US die in hospitals.

Are hospitals places of death? Should we shut them down?

Or could there be a rational reason, for example, that hospitals are dispropotionately filled with sick and injured people who are more likely to die.

Likewise, "children" in gangs are probably more likely to die of gun related injuries because they are in contact with guns in their daily life.

26 posted on 11/26/2001 9:50:12 AM PST by SocialMeltdown
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
You forgot the

Lying-Puke Barf-Alert!


27 posted on 11/26/2001 9:51:02 AM PST by Fixit
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
"...opposite is true for a telephone or electricity. Amish have lower suicide rates."...

It's not the gun, electricity, or telephone,....they are Christian. It would be interesting to evaluate "born again" Christian suicide rates against those that listen to Black Sabath, AC DC, or Marilyn Manson. Or for that matter the murder rate of both groups. I would assume the Christians would kill more often because they are intolerant of others. ;<)

28 posted on 11/26/2001 9:52:12 AM PST by chuckles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
Let me guess. A 24 year-old is considered a "child" in this statistic.

Actually, a 147 year-old would be considered a "child" in this statistic, and an "American child being shot" is defined as any "child" who is wounded, or gets ill, for any reason and by any means when a firearm is within a 450-mile radius of the "child" in question.

Ya really gotta WORK them statistics, bro. Work em HARD!

29 posted on 11/26/2001 9:55:57 AM PST by Lazamataz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Destructor
Yep. Further proof that statistical data can be altered to prove any point that a person/organization wants to make!

Yes, it can be altered, or important and salient points can be left out (more on that in a moment), but it doesn't even HAVE to be ALTERED. A great deal is in the INTERPRETATION and PRESENTATION of the data.

Prime example of this is an anti-gun article I was reading on the bang list which claimed, tragically, that for every one woman who killed an attacker (I'm quoting from memory here but believe I'm real close), 51 women were killed by guns.

The point was, GUNS ARE INHERENTLY BAD.

And naturally, many in this forum said, "Well, if those 51 women had had handguns to defend themselves with, it probably would've been 52-0." That may have been stretching reality, since it might've been more like 26-26, but the point is: the statistic could BETTER be used to justify handgun defense!

Now here's what I mean by omitting relevant information:

Twenty-nine percent of high-school boys have at least one firearm; most are intended for hunting and sporting purposes.

Six percent say they carry a gun outside the home.
The National Institute of Justice, 1998

If I'm not mistaken, this is from a study which ALSO reported (as an incidental result) that CHILDREN WHOSE PARENTS BUY THEM LEGAL GUNS ARE MUCH LESS LIKELY TO COMMIT CRIMES THAN THOSE WHO OBTAIN GUNS ILLEGALLY, AND, INTERESTINGLY, ARE ALSO SOMEWHAT LESS LIKELY TO COMMIT A CRIME THAT CHILDREN WITHOUT A GUN IN THE HOME.

But we aren't told that part in the cited compilation of statistics...

30 posted on 11/26/2001 9:58:13 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: lavaroise
Why not just cut to the chase?

Gavin de Becker is a consultant to the "thought" police.

He is an "expert" only because he holds himself out to be an expert. Click on his name for his sickeningly self-praising bio from his website. Here's a sample:

He has appeared as an expert on every major news show and has been interviewed several times by Oprah Winfrey, Larry King, Maria Shriver, Sam Donaldson, Mike Wallace, and Ed Bradley. He's been quoted and profiled in TIME and Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report, the New York Times, and many other publications.

31 posted on 11/26/2001 9:58:49 AM PST by Fixit
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Fixit
He [Gavin De BEcker] has appeared as an expert on every major news show and has been interviewed several times by Oprah Winfrey,

That says it all, talk about a show for liberal kooks.

32 posted on 11/26/2001 10:01:37 AM PST by lavaroise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: chuckles
It would be interesting to evaluate "born again" Christian suicide rates against those that listen to Black Sabath, AC DC, or Marilyn Manson. Or for that matter the murder rate of both groups. I would assume the Christians would kill more often because they are intolerant of others. ;<)

Yes, it would be very interesting indeed.

It would also be interesting to compare rates for home schoolers, private school attendees, and public school attendees. I would suspect that attending a public school would be a MAJOR risk factor for adolescent suicide.

33 posted on 11/26/2001 10:06:07 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Fixit
A MOSAIC® system is also used by the United States Capitol Police for threats against Senators and Congressmen, and by the Central Intelligence Agency for screening inappropriate and threatening mail.

Ironicaly his system cannot be blamed for the WTC bombing, or can it? This is just it, people with crystal balls and fortune tellers like GAvin are frauds of the first kind, never liable for their errors and failed systems.

My gosh, look where our tax money is going into. Into an unrepentant and paganistic government.

And who said big government was the problem, size certainly helps the arrogance.

34 posted on 11/26/2001 10:06:28 AM PST by lavaroise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
More teenage boys in America die from gunfire than from car accidents.

Gunshot wounds are now the leading cause of death for teenage boys in America (white, African-American, urban, suburban).

A visit to the CDC website tells that teenage "boys" (age 13-17) are represented as follows:

MV Traffic 1,810

Firearm accident 117

Firearm homicide or "legal intervention" 756

Firearm suicide 513

Total deaths 2683

Thus, 1386 died from gunshots, including criminals shot by cops, while 1810 died in motor vehicle accidents. The first statement is a lie, as is the second.

Most of the rest could probably be shown to similarly deceptive.

35 posted on 11/26/2001 10:10:27 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
An Army of Gun Lies

"The assertions about “X children per day” are based on counting older teenagers, or even people in their early twenties, as “children.” The claims are true only if you count a 19-year-old drug dealer who is shot by a competitor, or an 18-year-old armed robber who is shot by a policeman, as “a child killed by a gun.” As for actual children (14 years and under), the daily death rate is 2.6. For children ten and under, it’s 0.4 per day—far lower than the number of children who are killed by automobiles, drowning, or many other causes."

36 posted on 11/26/2001 10:11:59 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Nearly 500 children and teenagers each year are killed in gun-related accidents.

About 1,500 commit suicide.

According to the CDC (see above post for link), even if we include adults age 18 and 19, the number killed in firearms accidents is only half their claim: 262. The number of firearm suicides is only 1241.

If they wanted to be honest, and include only minors not yet of voting and military age, the numbers are 202 firearms accidental deaths, and 648 firearm suicides.

37 posted on 11/26/2001 10:16:27 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fixit
You forgot the Lying-Puke Barf-Alert!

I purposefully didn't put a "barf alert" because my purpose was discussion and digging out any genuine facts that might be hiding in here. A "barf alert" is (IMO) more of a signal to "pile on" than to discuss.

Personally, as someone interested in guns, I'm also highly interested in gun safety. Specifically: how can I make absolutely certain that having a gun(s) in my home will make for a MORE safe environment for my kids, rather than a LESS safe environment.

I suspect in the end that ALL statistics are of only limited value. Not ONE of us precisely matches the "AVERAGE PROFILE" of a group in a study. The REAL question is: given MY family and their personalities, MY situation, MY etc., etc., what is appropriate.

We have some friends with a teenage son who is just a hard-to-control lunatic, and has been that way since birth. NO WAY would I have a gun of any kind in that family UNLESS that particular son's access could be absolutely and permanently barred. If there's any way he could get ahold of the gun safe combination, forget it.

On the other hand, there are 8-year-olds who, given appropriate TRAINING, SUPERVISION, and PRACTICE, I wouldn't hesitate to trust with ready access to a fully loaded submachine gun...

38 posted on 11/26/2001 10:16:47 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Troll alert.
butter pecan fan member since October 7th, 2001

39 posted on 11/26/2001 10:20:05 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
In 1994, every day, 16 children age 19 and under were killed with guns and 64 were wounded in this country

Now if I am not mistaken that's 5840 children killed and 23,360 wounded. If this were true there would be no guns in the hands of any civilian in this country....Pahhhhhhhhhlease People, Start reading the right documents

40 posted on 11/26/2001 10:26:37 AM PST by .45MAN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum
Moron alert.

E. Pluribus Unum member since November 22nd, 1998

You know, you people really annoy the s*** out of my who immediately label as a TROLL any relative newbie who didn't join way back in 1998, and who shows ANY evidence whatsoever of being an independent thinker rather than just a "YEAH, BABY, ME TOO!" dittohead who just automatically SECONDS every single damn thing that is said in this forum.

I may have only officially joined this forum post-911, but if you BOTHERED to actually READ any of the posts and other meaningful information I've contributed, you would know that not only am I not a troll, I've contributed a HELL of a lot more to this forum lately than you have.

41 posted on 11/26/2001 10:35:04 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
To me the only thing this shows is that suicidal children that have access to guns are more likely to succeed. Notice they only mention the successes (nothing about attempts) and they don't give you how many involve the gun. Looks like simple physical math to me. As anyone in the medical profession can tell you it's actually very difficult to make the human body stop being alive. Most of the methods that are available (short of guns) are either very slow to accomplish the task or very difficult to wield against yourself. Because of this the vast majority of suicide attempts fail, handguns are very quick to kill and not that hard to point at yourself the success rate with guns is sure to be higher. This is borne out in my circle of friends during those highly emotional teenaged/ young adult years, I know people with a suicide attempt total of about 30 (2 people account for a lot of this and really screw up the stat), only 3 attempts were successful 2 of those used guns (the third was in prison and couldn't get a gun). That right there gives the 2-1 ratio the article talks about, and completely ignores (much like the article) the one friend who tried a lot, never succeeded but also never used any of the guns in the house (step-father was a cop, mother was an enthusiast, no shortage of firearms in that house). Like all arguements to convince the most important part in these "statistics" is what they don't say.
42 posted on 11/26/2001 10:35:52 AM PST by discostu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Twenty-nine percent of high-school boys have at least one firearm; most are intended for hunting and sporting purposes. Six percent say they carry a gun outside the home. The National Institute of Justice, 1998

From which I deduce that 23% of high-school boys hunt and discharge weapons for sport inside their homes.

I live in a town of approx. 20K people, in a region that is charitably regarded as "rustic". I believe it is one of the five poorest counties in the nation, it is chock full of guns, and we had what I believe was our second homocide of the year last week...both were stabbings.

43 posted on 11/26/2001 10:36:54 AM PST by gundog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Pardon the rant, folks, it's just that this place isn't always very welcoming to those of us who didn't join in 1998.
44 posted on 11/26/2001 10:36:57 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Here`s the source>BR> <A HREF="http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-00.html</A>
45 posted on 11/26/2001 10:40:36 AM PST by philetus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: discostu
To me the only thing this shows is that suicidal children that have access to guns are more likely to succeed. Notice they only mention the successes (nothing about attempts) and they don't give you how many involve the gun. Looks like simple physical math to me.

A highly intelligent reply. The more I think about it, the more that's what I'm thinking, too.

46 posted on 11/26/2001 10:41:07 AM PST by butter pecan fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: philetus
all thumbs I am
47 posted on 11/26/2001 10:42:51 AM PST by philetus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Hysteria just proves you're a troll.
48 posted on 11/26/2001 10:43:19 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Admit it. Your former identity was Eschoir, wasn't it?
49 posted on 11/26/2001 10:44:07 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: butter pecan fan
Everyday, about 75 American children are shot. Most recover –- 15 do not.

"Children up to age 19, including legal adults who can marry, drive, and die for their country. Most of these "children" are gang-bangers killing each other in turf wars. When the police shoot and kill fleeing teens, these deaths are included in this total.

The majority of fatal accidents involving a firearm occur in the home.

The majority of car accidents also occur very close to home - guess we should ban homes, they are so dangerous. A hunter might spend some few days or a week in a year hunting, compared to the other 358 days at home. Where do think the accidents are most likely to occur?

Gunshot wounds are the single most common cause of death for women in the home, accounting for nearly half of all homicides and 42 percent of suicides.

Murder is illegal, and suicides are a personal choice. Neither has to do with guns. Suicide is twice as common in Japan where guns are banned - people there tend to drown themselves. Murder happens where guns don't exist, too.

An adolescent is twice as likely to commit suicide if a gun is kept in the home.

This "fact" confuses correlation with causation - is it because of the gun that the suicide occurred, or is it because people who wish to commit suicides decide to get guns, just for this purpose? This "fact" doesn't say.

More teenage boys in America die from gunfire than from car accidents.

Most of these teenage boys, again, are gang members killed over turf wars. For the typical American household, with a typical American teenage male - that male is more likely to die in a car accident than from a gun shot, because the typical teenage male isn't a gang member. However, this "fact" is stated in such a way as to confuse this issue.

Gunshot wounds are now the leading cause of death for teenage boys in America (white, African-American, urban, suburban).

--- all combined. But when you break them down, is this still true? Let's see the numbers. (And, don't include suicide since they will still kill themselves if they really, really want to anyway.)

Researchers at familyeducation.com have collected the following statistics on kids and guns:

Twenty-nine percent of high-school boys have at least one firearm; most are intended for hunting and sporting purposes. Six percent say they carry a gun outside the home. The National Institute of Justice, 1998

And nearly 100% of them own books, and carry them outside the home. Researchers are still puzzled why high-school boys like to exercise the First Amendment so much more than the Second Amendment.

From 1980 to 1997, gun killings by young people 18 to 24 increased from about 5,000 to more than 7,500. During the same period, gun killings by people 25 and older fell by almost half, to about 5,000. The US Department of Justice

The War on (some) Drugs provided lots of buisness opportunities to America'a diverse youths. For some reason, they can't all just get along, especially when huge drug profits are at stake.

There are about 60 million handguns in the United States. About 2 to 3 million new and used handguns are sold each year. US Senate Statistics

"That every man be armed..." Well on the way, I see!

Nearly 500 children and teenagers each year are killed in gun-related accidents. About 1,500 commit suicide. Nearly 7,000 violent crimes are committed each year by juveniles using guns they found in their own homes. Senator Herb Kohl, sponsor of the safety lock measure.

Education can reduce or eliminate the accidents; why do so-called "safety" groups oppose programs like the NRA's Eddie Eagle? Suicides are personal choice, and don't depend on guns anyway. As mentioned, Japan has twice the suicide rate of America, but they drown themselves rather than shooting themselves. (In other words: "Studies show that countries which disarm their citizens experience twice the suicide rates of countries that trust their citizens with arms.")

In 1994, every day, 16 children age 19 and under were killed with guns and 64 were wounded in this country. National Center for Health and Statistics, 1996

"Children" 19 and under who can vote, marry, and serve in the Army. And the number 16 became 13, and then 12, then 11, then 10. However, the research finds the old number, not the latest one. Nothing like cherry-picking your data for the greatest emotional impact, is there?

50 posted on 11/26/2001 10:44:41 AM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-97 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson