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New emissions rules offer drivers bigger headachesProtection Agency is set to unleash on the country
usatoday.com ^ | 11/26/2001

Posted on 11/27/2001 1:09:29 PM PST by expose

Edited on 04/13/2004 1:38:39 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Starting next year, drivers of relatively new cars could see those little "check engine" lights illuminating the dashboard turn into an expensive nightmare, thanks to a new system of emissions-control mandates the Environmental Protection Agency is set to unleash on the country.


(Excerpt) Read more at usatoday.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 11/27/2001 1:09:29 PM PST by expose
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To: expose
the U.N love this
2 posted on 11/27/2001 1:10:16 PM PST by expose
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To: expose
I bet you if you were to look through the USA Today archives you would find an editorial praising the Clinton EPA for these new rules.
3 posted on 11/27/2001 1:16:48 PM PST by Dane
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To: expose
I have a simple solution to that - I drive a 1969 Chevy truck.
It has no computers whatsoever, of course.

My wife's car is a 2001, so we can't escape it from her end.

Oh yeah, I have heard there is an "OBD I" and an "OBD II" system.
Presumably OBD II is newer - it's on my wife's car.

4 posted on 11/27/2001 1:16:55 PM PST by Constitution Day
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To: expose
New Rule Would Slash Off Road ...
5 posted on 11/27/2001 1:17:15 PM PST by expose
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To: expose
ARRGH!!! Anyone who runs on this issue alone, I will vote for.
6 posted on 11/27/2001 1:18:57 PM PST by JmyBryan
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To: Constitution Day
can the E.P.A tack you with this new system of emissions-control mandates?
7 posted on 11/27/2001 1:19:20 PM PST by expose
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To: Constitution Day
I agree with your line of reasoning. In OH, 25+ year old vehicles are exempt from testing. That's around 1976 and older. Old cars are easier to work on, the parts are cheaper and they're exempt from the ridiculous testing.

I've given serious thought to retiring my '96 and replacing it with something much older, instead of newer.
8 posted on 11/27/2001 1:21:02 PM PST by babyface00
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To: JmyBryan
Mass. Announces Emissions Rules

Apr. 24, 2001

By JOHN McELHENNY, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON (AP) _ Massachusetts will become the first state to limit carbon dioxide emissions from power plants under clean-air rules set to go into effect in June.

The new standards unveiled Monday by acting Gov. Jane Swift also will limit mercury emissions and require deep cuts in emissions of sulfur dioxide, which causes acid rain, and smog-causing nitrogen oxide.

The regulations will apply to the state's six dirtiest power plants, which produce 40 percent of the electricity used in Massachusetts.

"This sets the bar for any other state that is doing power plant clean ups," said Conrad Schneider, a spokesman for Clean Air Task Force, a national environmental advocacy group that monitors power plant emissions. "And it sets the bar for the national debate for what the level of reduction should be in federal legislation."

Proposals to limit carbon dioxide emissions surged onto the national scene last month when Swift's fellow Republican, President Bush, reversed a campaign pledge to push for carbon dioxide power plant limits.

"He and I, in this case, came to a different conclusion," Swift said as she announced the new Massachusetts regulations.

The new regulations would require

Power plants would be required to cut average carbon dioxide emissions by 10 percent under the new regulations. Many scientists believe such emissions are causing the Earth to warm significantly.

Efforts to cut carbon dioxide emissions have often presented a political challenge for state officials because the reductions have little direct impact locally.

"I know that climate change is a global problem _ but that does not mean we should sit around and wait for global solutions," said state Environmental Affairs Secretary Bob Durand.

A spokesman for the Competitive Power Coalition of New England, an industry group, said the strict rules would lead to higher electric rates and increase the risk of outages. Swift dismissed that prediction, noting that several new power plants were planned for the region.

___ On the Net:

EPA global warming site: http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming

9 posted on 11/27/2001 1:21:47 PM PST by expose
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To: JmyBryan
electromagnetic fields or emissions.
10 posted on 11/27/2001 1:24:24 PM PST by expose
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To: Constitution Day
ALL OF THIS IS RIGHT FROM THE U.N-----This Act may be cited as the Kyoto Protocol Act of 1998.
11 posted on 11/27/2001 1:28:49 PM PST by expose
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To: gratefulwharffratt; CCWoody; Romulus; Illbay; IronJack; null and void; hogwaller; LarryLied...
bump
12 posted on 11/27/2001 1:30:26 PM PST by expose
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To: expose
just remove the bulb.
13 posted on 11/27/2001 1:33:34 PM PST by rickmoe
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To: expose
The so-called smog laws can be summed up in one word - fraud. My encounters with the California Bureau of Automotive Repair in the early 1980's was what started my slide into radical conservatism. Now I damn all liberals - socialism is a disease and liberalism is a mental disorder.
14 posted on 11/27/2001 1:37:18 PM PST by 45Auto
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To: expose
Why don't they just make us pee in a cup while we're at it? At least that way I can "accidentally" spill it all over them.
15 posted on 11/27/2001 1:40:48 PM PST by brewcrew
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To: expose
The smog laws are not about clean air or the environment - they are about money and how to steal more of it from the already tax-overburdened citizens. They are nothing but a license to steal for auto repair shops and government bureaucracies.
16 posted on 11/27/2001 1:40:50 PM PST by 45Auto
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To: expose
Welcome to FR, expose.

Critical, operative, and not-to-be-overlooked language from their site:

The agency is requesting comments from the public about this view, and about all the proposed standards.

To improve the final rule, the EPA will refine the cost benefit analysis it conducted in connection with this proposed rule. The agency will take into consideration the findings of this analysis as it makes final decisions on standards, phase in periods, and the scope of coverage.

17 posted on 11/27/2001 1:41:13 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: babyface00
I've given serious thought to retiring my '96 and replacing it with something much older, instead of newer.

If your state exempts older vehicles, I would take them up on that offer!

A really nice older car with 100,000 miles can be had for a song! One or two thousand dollars will buy a comfortable, well maintained, good running, large vehicle that will do everything you need it to do. Of course, you are on the higher-maintenance end of the life cycle, but that is not such a big deal.

Think of it this way, take that $250 ($350? $400?) a month car payment, and think how much routine maintenance you can do with that kind of money. I found a local guy to work on my 15-year-old wagon, and told him that I wanted him to keep it running forever, provided he could do it on a certain budget. Once every couple of months, the car goes in and he does about $400 worth of work. The car is beautiful, runs flawlessly, and never has been a lick of trouble. He even gives me a loaner on the days he has my car! He tells me that I can keep this car forever, if I want to. I just might.

OK, now pull out your car insurance bill. If you have a car payment, your loan holder will require you to have to have a fairly low deductible collision policy. Those are murderously expensive, and don't even cover you against what you really need to be insured against (i.e. large liability losses). In my state (NJ) most new car owners pay more for collision insurance coverage than I pay for my enhanced maintenance package. I don't have to bother with collision, because the book value of my car is so low, that I wouldn't get much for it anyway. I put some money into comprehensive insurance, because if I am in a car accident, I will be more concerned about losing my house than my car!

My biggest problem is the semi-annual emissions inspection. However, the car is well maintained, so I have had no problem so far. My current sticker is good for another 23 months, so I will have my old car for at least that long.

Plus, when you are rolling down the street, what really catches your eye, an immaculate twenty-five-year-old BMW 2001, or a three-year-old Pontiac Grand Prix, that is already beginning to rust?

18 posted on 11/27/2001 1:42:13 PM PST by gridlock
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To: gridlock
the U.N want the old cars off the roads.
19 posted on 11/27/2001 1:43:46 PM PST by expose
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To: expose
,,, the manufacturers want the older cars off the roads too. Tell me, do any States have rules about turning your engines off while you're sitting at an intersection waiting for lights to turn green? This was the case in Switzerland last time I was there.
20 posted on 11/27/2001 1:47:18 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: expose; .45MAN
If the program fails to live up to the EPA's billing, it won't be the first time. The agency made similar promises about previous advances in emissions testing. It said these programs would be more reliable and cut pollution by greater amounts — claims that outside studies failed to support.

This paragraph says it all.

I live in a county in GA where emissions testing is mandatory. I don't know how many times I've been behind "bug sprayers" from exempt counties driving here. These people claim to own property in the exempt counties in order to keep these old geezer polluters.

There'll always be a way to beat the new system, too. What a crock.

bump to .45man

21 posted on 11/27/2001 1:50:58 PM PST by dansangel
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To: expose
They can have my car when they pry the keys from my cold, dead fingers!
22 posted on 11/27/2001 1:51:50 PM PST by gridlock
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To: expose
thanks for the bump
23 posted on 11/27/2001 2:18:16 PM PST by MistyCA
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To: expose
If these blow hards want to control emissions, they should shut their traps.

That'd stop all the hot air their blowing up our *ss*s.

24 posted on 11/27/2001 2:19:40 PM PST by Nachum
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To: expose
Oh geez.
25 posted on 11/27/2001 2:20:08 PM PST by MistyCA
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To: expose
This article is so poorly written, I hardly know where to begin:

My wife has a 1994 Buick Park Avenue with the 3800 pushrod engine, the last test results from MARTA in Nashville reveal the levels of measured pollutants to be:
HC (% of unburned hydrocarbons) 3; CO (% Carbon Monoxide) 0.00; CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) 14.8.

The "Check Engine" light tests each time the engine is cranked and has never come on while driving. The car has 106,000 miles and has never had any engine repair beyond sparkplugs and a water pump.

In California, no car can pass emissions testing if any of the observable components are defeated, broken or missing, regardless of the tailpipe probe reading.

Idiots know no bounds.

26 posted on 11/27/2001 2:21:13 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: expose
The nightmares of having to deal with these PITA *tests* when last I lived in a major metropolitan area (& that was under the "old system") hold some dark memories for me.
In those days I bought my wife a new Audi...'nuff said. {g}

That's been ten years ago already & since then I've lived in rural areas where these tests have yet to be mandated; with *yet* the operative word?

I'll enjoy my relative motoring freedom while I can; & hopefully by the time they get around to me?
I'll have assumed room temperature.

...nawwww; I suppose that'd be too merciful hoping for that.

27 posted on 11/27/2001 2:28:42 PM PST by Landru
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To: expose
re:
"...BOSTON (AP) _ Massachusetts will become the first
state to limit carbon dioxide emissions from power plants
under clean-air rules set to go into effect in June.

The new standards unveiled Monday by acting Gov. Jane Swift
also will limit mercury emissions and require deep cuts in emissions
of sulfur dioxide, which causes acid rain, and smog-causing
nitrogen oxide....."

Yeah, we're really plagued with heavy smog, here in Massachewshits.

They don't tell you why all the evergreens are turning brown
alongside the highways, in parking lots, or wherever gasoline
engine exhaust accumulates. Any suggestion that it might be
due to the anti-pollutant additives, or anti-pollutant devices that
cause the gas to burn hotter, are expelled as nonsense. The fact
that the trees withstood years and years, until the new legislation
took effect, fall to deafened ears.

Yup, what we need are more regulations. Oh, yes... and regulatory
fees, licensing and fines..

Hmm. I wonder where that money goes, huh Joey K?

28 posted on 11/27/2001 2:36:34 PM PST by Deep_6
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To: expose
"If the program fails to live up to the EPA's billing, it won't be the first time."

Eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency and let States decide which of their archaic rules they want to continue enforcing, while eliminating the rest. Plain and simple...and the savings to the average taxpayer may just be enough to allow them the extra money required to buy a new, cleaner call...PROBLEM SOLVED!!

FReegards...MUD

29 posted on 11/27/2001 2:36:42 PM PST by Mudboy Slim
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To: expose
If things keep going the way they are, I'm going to have to put the catalytic converter back on and take the glass packs off my F350.
30 posted on 11/27/2001 2:45:03 PM PST by LoneGOPinCT
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To: Constitution Day
And OBD stands for:,.........Ooobeee boobee doobee?
31 posted on 11/27/2001 2:46:48 PM PST by garyhope
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To: expose
My fleet consists of a 1965 Ford Galaxie, 1968 Merc, 1979 Caddie, 1989 Vovager and a 1989 Tauus SHO.

I paid less then 13,000 for four of these cars over the last four years.

I carry antique insurance on two of them. I dive them for half the year.

I can drive them where and when I want only small a mileage limit.(Which I never come near.)

The insurance costs me 192.00 a year with full coverage on collision. no deductible.

If I could afford a new car guess what? I wouldn't buy one. The property tax alone would be well over 1,000 a year.

32 posted on 11/27/2001 3:13:42 PM PST by #1CTYankee
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To: expose
I get the gist on this one. What they hope to accomplish is getting rid of automobiles and replacing them with shitty things like electric cars with batteriss that run out in the middle of nowhere, expecting us to carpool in public buses packing us in like sardines, and ticketing us for smoking a cigarette outside and in our homes, and telling us we should be frugal with water i.e. we should bathe less. I say the hell with 'em. They want to turn the U.S. into a third world country and bring down our standards of living so that those running the scenes from behind the U.N. curtain can be our masters. If we do not bow down to them, we are crushed to death.
33 posted on 11/27/2001 5:39:19 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: goldilucky
they are seting up now in your state for you to pay a toll to drive a car on all roads
34 posted on 11/27/2001 6:12:11 PM PST by expose
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To: expose
a toll fee? Just wonderful. What's next?
35 posted on 11/27/2001 6:16:22 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: goldilucky
No Thumbprint, No Rental Car

By Julia Scheeres

2:00 a.m. Nov. 21, 2001 PST

When James Glave arrived at Oakland International Airport and went to retrieve the rental car he had reserved over the Internet, he was dismayed to learn that the agency not only required his driver's license and payment information, but also his thumbprint.

The New Mexico-based magazine editor said he found out about the requirement when he walked up to the Dollar Rent A Car counter and noticed a display featuring a drawing of a big thumb making the A-OK sign with the words "Thumbs Up!" printed on it.

The display explained that thumbprints were being collected from customers as part of an effort to reduce fraud and theft, Glave said.

When he refused to fork over his digit, the employee refused to rent him a car.

Glave, a former reporter and editor at Wired News, had unwittingly walked into Dollar's biometric experiment, which is being conducted at the agency's outposts in 13 airports across the country.

"It's all about asset control," Jim Senese, Dollar's vice president of quality assurance, said.

The vehicle rental industry is plagued by theft and credit card fraud, which often go hand in hand: Fake or stolen IDs and credit cards are used to rent vehicles, which are never returned.

U-Haul has been thumbprinting clients in areas with high theft rates since the early 90s, said company spokeswoman Jennifer Flachman, who added that the prints are destroyed at the customer's request when the equipment is returned.

At Dollar, the rental agreement forms -- and thumbprints -- are stored at the company's corporate headquarters in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for seven years before they are trashed.

Senese said the system would benefit customers by keeping rental prices down. The month-long pilot program, which concludes Dec. 1, has successfully reduced fraud and theft at the test locations, Senese said. He refused to divulge the particulars of the test, which had been scheduled for rollout this month before the Sept. 11 attacks.

Deterrence is a key feature of the system, he said.

"If someone has a bad intention, they're going to go somewhere else," Senese said. "It's kind of like being the one store in the mall that drug-tests new applicants -- people won't try to get work there if they have a drug problem."

He was surprised to learn of Glave's reaction to the program, saying that thousands of Dollar customers have been thumbprinted in past weeks and the company has received few complaints.

Privacy advocates say that the burgeoning use of biometric data -- including face and finger scans -- by government and corporations is poorly regulated and worry that information could be used to track and monitor citizens.

"It's important not to be blindsided by these things," said Lauren Weinstein, the moderator of the Privacy Forum.

In the climate of fear following the Sept. 11 attack, the public has been more willing to forfeit privacy for the promise of greater security, without considering the long-term consequences, Weinstein said.

"How would you feel if you went to the grocery store, and you went to sign a check and they demanded a thumbprint?" Weinstein said. "Ten years from now they'll be demanding your DNA."

The Dollar pilot program has been rolled out in the following airports: Philadelphia International, Ronald Reagan Washington National, Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport, Chicago Midway, Detroit Metro, Baltimore/Washington International, Dallas Love Field, William P. Hobby Airport in Houston, San Diego International, Los Angeles International, San Francisco International, Denver International and Oakland International.

"I don't think companies have any role collecting biometric data," Glave said. "It takes us into a surveillance society that is profoundly disturbing. What's next? Am I going to have to be fingerprinted when I check into a hotel in case I trash my room?"

"The only print of mine Dollar is going to get is the front side of my middle finger," Glave said.

36 posted on 11/27/2001 6:55:24 PM PST by expose
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To: expose
I am familiar with this thumbprint business as out in California you have to give a thumprint now just to have an I.D.

These are just the stages for the mark of the beast to be further set in place. But it is done in phases first.

37 posted on 11/27/2001 8:06:18 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: expose
"Forcing everyone into testing centers to catch a small number of polluters doesn't make sense, no matter how high-tech the detection method."

Bump.

38 posted on 11/27/2001 9:33:59 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
My brother has an 88 eagle premiere that has passed
CA smog every two years with no problems.
This year the car passed the smog check, but FAILED the visual.
The check engine light won't turn on when he turns on the car.
The bulb works. So now he has to go and spend $300 dollars to fix a car
that passed smog so a light bulb that works will turn on for 1 second.
What the heck does an ignition switch have to do with smog!
39 posted on 11/27/2001 10:17:39 PM PST by Fpimentel
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To: Fpimentel
That's terrible!
40 posted on 11/27/2001 10:27:15 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: expose
Starting next year, drivers of relatively new cars could see those little "check engine" lights illuminating the dashboard turn into an expensive nightmare, thanks to a new system of emissions-control mandates the Environmental Protection Agency is set to unleash on the country.

Heh heh heh...

What "check engine" light??? NO SUCH THING, in my 1968, SS-396 Camaro. BTW, they also can't say a damned thing, about the blower on the top of the engine...

Best thing, is that I can blow away brand-new Vettes (don't even mention Mustangs!), and don't have a car payment!!!

Seems like that gas mileage everybody pokes fun at, is cheaper than the outrageous sticker prices, insurance and now EPA rules.

The EPA can pucker up, and kiss my pasty white butt!

FReegards!!!

41 posted on 11/27/2001 10:27:40 PM PST by Capitalist Eric
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To: Capitalist Eric
Re: Fuel cost for your 1968 SS-396 Camaro

The cost of fuel is nothing compared with the cost of owning a new car.

Say your sweet ride gets a piddling 12.5 mpg. Say you drive a lot, 20,000 miles in a year. That means you will have to buy 1,600 gallons of gas a year. At $1.50 a gallon, that adds up to $2,400 a year fuel cost, about $200 a month.

If you wanted to get similar performance in a modern car, you would have to get the 5.0 HO Ford Mustang (shudder, sorry for even suggesting such a thing) or maybe a Vette. They will get about 20 miles per gallon, leading to an annual fuel cost of $1,500 a year, a fuel cost savings of $75 dollars a month. Compare that $75 to the carrying cost of buying a new car! That Vette will run you a thousand a month once you add up car payments, interest and insurance!

Even if you swore off any form of human pleasure and bought a hybrid-powered Toyota Prius, which gets 50 mpg, the $150 a month you save on fuel would not even pay half of your car payment.

The only reason to buy a new car is because you think it looks better or has more style. But how can a car possibly have more style than a cherry 1968 SS-396 Camaro with a blower on the hood?

42 posted on 11/28/2001 5:14:55 AM PST by gridlock
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To: expose
Thanks for the ping. I'll catch up with my reading later today. Have been gone on vacation for a few days.
43 posted on 11/28/2001 8:26:25 AM PST by nicmarlo
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