Confessions of a warhawk: defending the American Empire

Enter Stage Right - A Journal of Modern Conservatism ^ | November 26, 2001 | Jackson Murphy

[independentmind]

I'll have fond memories of FR, some good friends and the highest hopes that it will work out as a dating service once it's thoroughly routed of any semblance to its original purpose or profile.

LOL... you can't be too serious all of the time. If nothing else, the endless male-female dialogue around here shows how much unhappiness has been caused by the sexual revolution. Now we just need to convince them of that...

[annalex]

But Goldberg is factually right in the narrow sense of "freedom" as civil franchise, and it is clear from the quote itself.

I would agree with you that the growth in civil franchise has been more than offset by the increased role of government in all spheres. I would also agree that Goldberg's quote does nothing to allay the fear of big government, and in fact, the increased franchise had a side effect of contributing to the big government.

My point in making the original remark to you is that if you take the Goldberg paragraph completely out, the article makes sense.

[independentmind]

Corporatism::Capitalism::Islamism:Islam A gross oversimplification, but a useful one I think.

Yes, well I am still trying to figure out what capitalism is. Until I do so, I would modify your analogy as follows:

Corporatism::Capitalism Free Enterprise ::Islamism:Islam

[Askel5]

Don't worry ... I'm actually not the Eyeore I'm accused of being.

I'm all for having some fun but when folks like me who actually chip in because they find the site more vital than mere "entertainment" or a more rollicking version of the Drudge Report's collection of stories are paying for "What's Your Favorite Song" and "Who's a Single FReeper" and scads of vanities.

I really see no reason why we can't split the rec room and bar off the forum and charge a "cover" for entry to the premiere conservative meet and greet on the net. Might be a nice way for Jim to make a few extra bucks and take the pressure off his keeping FR alive.

[gjenkins]

"As for the vaunted mobility that Jonah claims as synonymous with freedom, it does nothing to relieve the burden of the state on the individual."

Mobility: You should have seen the witch burners roasting the family who chose to live in a mobile home and utilize the library internet connection to run a web site.

Burden: No matter what we own out right, it will be taken away if we don't meet the base level of support for our society ... even if you own a house, it will no longer be yours if do not pay property taxes.

[Captain Kirk]

Ah.....but the premise of the article is to assume a Pollyanna like view of the "American empire," hence the Goldberg quote. That entire premise is flawed as the story of the twentieth century indicates.

[Askel5]

I don't think I could switch out free enterprise and capitalism.

I think free enterprise is always a good. (Particularly if guided by a just state which would, for example, prohibit trade with enemies, free transfer of critical technologies or import of red cocaine and heroin.)

I think capitalism can go either way. It's primary danger -- beyond those enumerated in the Catechism regarding gross centralization (by merger and takeover), loss of regard for the individual (mass layoffs), etc. -- is in the regard of capital as transcendent.

With interest and other artificial and often wholly arbitrary constructs, material and money becomes more than it is, more than the sum of its parts.

I think that's the point at which it becomes an idol suitable for worship. Nothing in free enterprise to compare with that danger.

[gjenkins]

"Kissinger"

Who the hell is Kissinger, what is he doing, and where did he come from?

[independentmind]

I see free enterprise as something broader than capitalism. For a better discussion, try this.

[annalex]

Pollyanna like view of the "American empire,"

Not at all; he is merely saying that an empire is an adequate response in the situation on hand.

[Captain Kirk]

Certainly...not because it will make us "freer than ever before." The story of the twentieth century (growth of regulations, government, restrictions on civil liberties, etc.) indicates just the opposite. If people want to embrace "empire" fine and daddy but they should at least be up front about describing the trade-offs.

[Askel5]

Me too.

Interesting quote I just ran across:

"No indulgence of passion destroys the spiritual nature so much as respectable selfishness."
--George MacDonald (C.S. Lewis's fave)

I'll head over to the capitalism thread.

[annalex]

growing numbers of people would rather make sure that airport security is rigid rather than have another 5,000 citizens dead.

Frisked and alive is freer than dead and unfrisked, no?