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To: flamefront
Are these just the words of a few extremists?

Yes.

Those aren't my leaders. Those opinions don't represent my viewpoint. Should I go find quotes from Anglo politicians, professors, militia whackos and street people and then insist that they represent all Anglos?

Hispanics aren't some monolithic, cultural equivalent of the Borg coming to America to "out-reproduce" you and live on welfare. Shake yourself.

Is your faith and confidence in America and American ideals so fragile that you think we can't absorb immigrants without collapsing? Is this the end of America as we know it? Sure. It probably is. That doesn't mean it's the end of America or our Constitution or our way of life. America will be just fine. Relax.

102 posted on 11/30/2001 1:40:43 PM PST by mvscal
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To: mvscal
OK, so you think they are able to be assimilated.

But what number would you think is too much, given the amount of support they will need to be assimilated for many years? 1 million, 10 million, 100 million, or do you think no limit at all?

And if no limit at all, why have any border? -- Is that your view?

103 posted on 11/30/2001 1:44:21 PM PST by flamefront
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To: mvscal
We all realize that you are of Mexican ancestry and heritage and that you value that but, that is not enough to dismiss the abuses by the current illegal immigrants that have entered this Country, nor does it give you rights to call anyone that does not agree in lockstep with you names, i.e.: racists, as it also does not give you rights to tell us that our opinions are wrong. You can disagree with our opinions, but they are not necessarily wrong because you say so.

I am on the East Coast, my particular city and area is becoming "infested" with illegal Mexicans. I say "infested" because that is what it is like. I am not a racist, and I am not against Mexican's as people, as Americans. I am a single woman and an equal opportunity dater, meaning I have dated a few "Mexican ancestry" men, one seriously. Here is the difference though; he was an American, an Army Ranger, and his ancestry was not a part of his daily life - as he was an American. His values, his language, his attitudes were American, and he looked down on people regardless of their ethnicity that were lazy, criminals, abusers of the system, etc. Back to my East Coast area. Again, he was an American. The Floridian Cubans made me mad last year during the Elian Fiasco when they were waving the Cuban flag while demanding our American rights, just as Mexicans who fly the Mexican flag, not as part of a "holiday," but regularly, do.

I went to McDonald's the other morning there was a picture of a Mexican man with his name next to the drive through, he was named Hispanic Employee of the month by the (get this) "Hispanic Chamber of Commerce!" On the window where you pick up your food was another sign saying "Proud Member of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce." Excuse me, I don't live in Hispanic town, I live in Jesse Helms town - we have a Chamber of Commerce for the City, why do we need a "Hispanic" one? This does not tell me that the current immigrants are assimilating, or even trying to.

I go to my grocery store, half the clerks cannot even understand me, nor me them. To me this is a problem. I was there one day, there were two other people, "Americans," in the aisle also, we were just doing our shopping when suddenly we heard "Spanish" come over the loud speaker. We all looked at each other with "what the heck" kind of expressions; the announcement was redone in English momentarily. Again, this is not assimilating.

I moved here a few years ago from NY, I am still living in an apartment complex. It is an older complex, large apartments, good rent, prime location. For background, a friend from work lives less than a quarter of a mile from me and pays more ($250 a month) for her 1 bedroom that is also less than half my sq. footage for more money because she prefers "new," and the marketing appeal the "new" offers - I guess they have shinier brochures - as my complex offers the same amenities. Until the past year my complex had a lot of professionals. Within the last year they have been giving up their leases. Six notices have come out from management telling us that the parking lots are not for congregating, that furniture meant for the house is not allowed on the patios, that children need to be accompanied to the pool, the tennis courts, the "workout" room, that cars would be inspected visually for up to date licensure and inspection, and so on. There was even one that told us the manner in which our rent had to be paid, not the date, but suddenly the manner of payment changed. (as a side note: we, for a temporary period of time had a different Manager than the one that checked all backgrounds for 16 plus years due to her death - I guess the new Manager was a fill in and not doing well - she is gone now) The oddest thing though was that we received a notice telling us that addressed how many of us were allowed in each apartment and where it was specified in our leases. Did I fail to mention that our complex had within that time suddenly had grown to having a large "Hispanic" population? I also failed to mention that in the last year our crime factor had risen over 25%. Within the past few months there have been quite a few moving trucks, and the complex seems to be getting back to "normal." Thank God for new management.

The point of my wordy post though is that no one is necessarily being a "racist" because we speak out on the newest onslaught of illegal immigrants. We, Americans, just do not want to see our "culture" intruded upon, changed, disrespected, turned into slums, taxes going up to support those that are not citizens, a new language being used as if though it was the "language;" that is regardless of nationality, it just so happens that it is the Mexicans that are doing this, not another nationality.

You seemed to make light of the fact that European immigrants gave up all for a passage to American, you did not address the fact that those immigrants had to go through "processing" before entering the Country, and that they may have been sent back if they did not meet the stringent rules allowing them in, losing the money they paid to get here, plus all they may have had in their home country. The illegal Mexicans do not face that burden. You said the Mexicans were dirt farmers, what did they have to go back to; well, I ask what did the European immigrants have to go back to in their war slaught, sometimes disease ridden Countries, with no jobs, and now no goods as they had sold all to come here?

Your comments, in my opinion, are without thought, and just made with bias based on your heritage. Just because you are Mexican does not mean that all Mexicans are of good nature and heart, just as no one nationality or person is. Don't try to stick up for them all just because you share the same heritage. I will give the Mexicans time to assimilate, if they are here legally, and if they try, but forming a "Hispanic Chamber of Commerce" to me is not trying to assimilate, nor is the trying to get Spanish as a second language, waving the Mexican flag, speaking Spanish on the loud system at the grocery store, congregating in parking lots, collecting welfare, taking advantage of our system, etc. This is America, not Mexico-America.

210 posted on 11/30/2001 9:26:49 PM PST by Danielle
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To: mvscal
Hispanics aren't some monolithic, cultural equivalent of the Borg coming to America to "out-reproduce" you and live on welfare.

I guess they'd make a better impression, if people didn't see the housing projects crowded with people from Mexico and so many using food stamps who can't speak a word in English, you can go to a grocery store in this town and be the only person using cash. In counties along the border, you see over a third of the population living on some sort of welfare, so it's easy to get the impression many are coming to get in on the freebies, with a drop out rate of almost 40%, it doesn't appear many are here to better their lives at all.

Hispanics aren't a monolith though, the US born English speaking have a higher rate of military service and patriotism than most other groups, and many are legal immigrants who chose to obey the laws in this country and are willing to learn English and work hard. But you can go into the projects around here and find plenty flying the Mexican flag and refusing to learn English or do much of anything with themselves.

250 posted on 11/30/2001 10:53:08 PM PST by FITZ
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