Posted on 12/12/2001 7:21:41 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
Mary was borne sinless through the Immaculate Conception. However, since all of us are born with Original Sin, she could only have been borne sinless through the Salvation of Jesus Christ. Why couldn't Jesus save his Mother from sin before he "came down from heaven and was made man?" John tells us that Jesus is eternal. All things are possible for God.
Maybe one denotes males and one females? I'm not a Greek scholar, but if you can clarify the question, I can get you an answer. Remember this, these "Brothers and sisters" of Christ could be step-siblings. These other children are never referred to as being "son of Mary" or "daughter of Mary."
SD
I'm a religous bigot like Paul the Apostle
" Titus 1:9 9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. (NIV) "
I don't consider fairy tales about a woman who the"fountain of my life" to be sound doctrine.
Don't take it personal. I would do this to anyone who posted such blasphemous garbage
Step siblings? To be step "siblings" means that either Mary had these children with another man or Joseph had them from a previous marriage.
Now I haven't been in the Catholic faith for 10 years but I sure would be interested if they are now using the "Step kid" slant to keep the hoax of perpetual virginity alive.
Was the mother of Mary also sinless? Surely God would not allow the "Mother of God" to be born from a sinfull womb? And how about Marys mothers mother?
It can go on and on. It just shows the stupidity of such doctrine
But, that is not my focus, my focus is on the tilma, have you read the story for yourself? Have you investigated it for yourself?
(I'm guessing the answer is no)
Its fun to go back in history and read these same arguments, Justin Martyr refuted the same ones, I believe back in the 300's.
Being a fundementalist I don't have too. The bible tells us about myths
1 Tim 1:4 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work-- which is by faith. (NIV)
1 Tim 4:7 7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. (NIV)
2 Tim 4:4 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. (NIV)
2 Cor 11:14 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (NIV)
Researching the bible takes away the urge to study the warm and fuzzy folklore.
I must admit the answer is no. I do plan on looking into this along with the face on Mars and crop circles.
At the present time I'm researching the claim that the picture of Tiger Woods on a Wheaties box looks like a 4th century painting of Mary and appears to be crying. ;)
Really? Let me give you 2 places from 2 different translations where this heretric belief shows up
Col 4:10 10 My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. (You have received instructions about him; if he comes to you, welcome him.) (NIV)
Luke 1:36 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. (KJV)
I'm sure your use of the word "heretic" is the Catholic meaning:anyone who doesn't follow the heresies of catholiism.
", not even Luther. "
Catholics always try to refute us with Luther. Luther was a Catholic who tried to reform the Catholic church. He believed in many of the churches false teachings. It is true that we have many of the same beliefs as Luther but to try to refute our teachings with those of Luther are absurd.
fundies and Luther are miles apart on many doctrinal matters.
You have to remember Luther was a Catholic for a long time God obviously didn't have time to beat all the catholicism out of him....;)
Catholics do not and should not read the King James Bible, which is a Protestant, abridged version of the Latin Vulgate. Stick to the Douay-Rheims version.
Firstborn is a legal term indicating a special privilege or rank. Psalm 88:28 "And I will make him my firstborn, high above the kings of the earth." David is referred to as the firstborn even though he was Jesse's eighth son. Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" Many people were born prior to Jesus, St.Paul is indicating that Christ has primacy over all creatures. The use of the term "firstborn" in Matthew 1:25 does not prove that Mary had other children and if she had then Sacred Scripture would tell us who they are.
That's a hell of a lot to read into one word. Especially given the meaning of the concept in the society at the time. There were special sacrifices that needed to be given to celebrate the firstborn of both women and livestock. The concept of the "firstborn" common in the day, as it is still today, implies nothing about the number of subsequent children. You read all of this into the Bible, not out of the Bible.
To put it another way, if this word "firstborn" is used at this point to denote that Jesus was the first of many chldren, it is an example of needless redundancy. We already know, from the Virgin Birth that Jesus is the first born chronologically. Duh. It is mentioned here not to convey information about future alleged children, but to mark the specialness in Jewish thought of the first to issue forth.
SD
This discussion (regarding the perpetual Virginity of the Holy Virgin, Jesus's Bretheren) has been going on for quite some time.
In this discussion St. Jerome (we've all heard of him) has a talk with one "Helvidius" regarding the matter.
Here is a link to the site and you can read it for yourself if you so desire.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm
Enjoy. Not only does St. Jerome (the saint who translated the Bible) discuss the perpetual Virginity of Mary, he also discusses the topic of "Jesus's Brethren" and how Virginity is preferable to the/and in the married state.
but...
"Ever hear the term "Doubting Thomas." Jesus' own disciple didnt even believe until he probed the nail marks in His hands and feet and put his hand into Our Lord's side."
Yes, I have.
"There are still doubting Thomas's today. This helps our faith. Jesus said that he would never leave us and appeared many times after His death. So, he has also appeared throughout history to many saints. What is wrong with Him sending an ambassador, His own Mother? Do you think he could not do it? Would not allow it?"
True, my unbelief helped me believe even more. There's nothing wrong with him sending an amabassador. I think he has millions of ambassadors. I think he could send Mary as an ambassador if he wanted too.
"Have you ever studied it for yourself?"
The apparition? I've looked at a few websites. I don't really know what to think of it.
I'll comment on this article.
"Know for certain, dearest of my sons, that I am the perfect and perpetual Virgin Mary, Mother of the True God, through whom everything lives, the Lord of all things, who is Master of Heaven and Earth. I ardently desire that a temple be built here for me where I will show and offer all my love, my compassion, my help and my protection to the people. I am your merciful Mother, the Mother of all who live united in this land, and of all mankind, of all those who love me, of those who cry to me, of those who have confidence in me. Here I will hear there weeping and sorrows, and will remedy and alleviate their sufferings, necessites and misfortunes."
OK. She gives glory to the Father, but why on earth would she want a temple built for HER? She as quoted as saying "Here I will hear there weeping and sorrows, and will remedy and alleviate their sufferings, necessites and misfortunes."
I have a problem with that. That's not her job is it? Isn't it Jesus'? Isn't he The Great Physcian? We are healed by HIS stripes.
Even Deigo says "You are My Holy One". Well to be blunt, he's looking at the wrong person. Jesus is The Holy One.
I don't mean to be-little your faith, or that of others, but the questions arise. People call the Seventh Day Adventists, or the Mormons a cult, for far less deviations from the Bible. The SDA are called a cult, because they want to worship on the Sabbath, and the Mormons are called a cult, because they called their leader infallible, and a prophet of God, just like the Pope.
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