That being said, yes, you are right, Jesus is the risen Lord, I agree 100%. Interesting we are in the Christmas season and there are mangers all over showing the Infant Jesus. We all know that Jesus is not an infant anymore so why do we depict Him as such? It helps us remember.
We are human, and we tend to need remembrences for different things. We commemorate many things for various reasons - that was not my question. I asked why MARY would present herself this way. If your answer is that possibly she herself knew that we would need a reminder, then I say that there are far more suitable reminders of the gospel - namely the risen Lord Himself...which brings us back around to my initial question - if Jesus is not shown in the message, how will others know He is there?
Where is the Gospel message of Jesus in Mary's womb? (I think that was your last question) In Luke. When Mary went 'with haste' to her cousin Elizabeth and John the Baptist was sanctified when Mary spoke to Elizabeth. "the moment your greeting sounded in my ears, the child within me leapt for joy."
No, I think you misunderstood. I was not asking where in Mary's womb was the gospel message, I was asking where in the Guadalupe message from Mary do we find the gospel message. Where in Mary's words do we find that she explains that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life? Rather we see her claiming to be everything that we need in and of herself. If you think that is a stretch, I reference the words of your post -
"Listen and let it penetrate your heart, my dear little son, do not be troubled or weighed down with grief. Do not fear any illness or vexation, anxiety or pain. Am I not here who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not your fountain of life? Are you not in the folds of my mantle? In the crossing of my arms? Is there anything else you need?"
Here she says that she can keep him from illness, worry and pain. She can protect him and maintain his life. She asks if there is anything else that he needs, totally suggesting that she can provide it, whatever it may be. NO mention of Jesus Christ as the provider of anything. One not familiar with Christianity would in no way glean His presence in this message. It is simply not possible.
But to answer your answer - I see nothing in your Luke reference which indicates the gospel message as we find it in, for example, John 3.
One other comment, as I read again the words of Mary, with regard to the temple you said
The Church that was built was not 'for' Mary. I'm sure you've noticed that most Catholic Church's are named after saints, I for instance attend St. Anthony of Padua, we honor saints by naming Church's after them, thats all. It is not 'for' them, the Church's are for the people to come together in. Jesus is always present in the tabernacle.
However, Mary herself said
"...I ardently desire that a temple be built here for me where I will show and offer all my love, my compassion, my help and my protection to the people. I am your merciful Mother, the Mother of all who live united in this land, and of all mankind, of all those who love me, of those who cry to me, of those who have confidence in me. Here I will hear there weeping and sorrows, and will remedy and alleviate their sufferings, necessites and misfortunes."
SHE will offer all HER love, HER compassion, HER help, HER protection. He is to love HER, cry out to HER, have confidence in HER. SHE will hear their crying, SHE will ease their pain, SHE will provide their necessities and SHE will rectify their misfortunes. She said she wanted a temple built FOR HER, and then proceeded to say what SHE would do in it if obeyed, not what Jesus would do, not even what Jesus would do through her. It certainly sounds like the temple is for her, and once again, Jesus is sorely lacking, and to the uninformed potential convert, there is NO way that Jesus would be found in what is given.
Thanks for the response.
Sounds like it's all about HER! She's beginning to look like a Clinton... (Has she requested a library?)
Just being,
I would instead ask, why has God always used humans? Everyone knows that He could have done it all Himself. We understand and believe that there is an omnipotent God, but as humans we relate with and better understand relationships with humans. If you were truly knowledgable about Salvation History you would know that Mary always leads people to her Son. That God used her as a conduit that humans can understand and relate to.
Let me try to answer your question again. "If Jesus is not shown in the message, how will others know He is there?" From a catholic perspective, Mary NEVER says anything or does anything contrary to the will of God. She is the Theotokos. So, right off the bat we know that Our Lady is in perfect conformity to the will of God.
I think that will help alot, if you can realize our undestanding and acceptance of Mary as intercessor.
Also, in the Eucharist we do not see Jesus, yet He is present; Body, Blood Soul and Divinity. Our Lady of Guadalupe is pregnant, carrying Jesus in her womb, to us Jesus is there.
I have heard apologists say that the perspective of Catholics and Protestants is different. With Protestants it is the "either/or" thinking, ie it's either Jesus or Mary, in which case it can only be Jesus.
Catholics think in a "both/and" perspective. It is both Jesus and Mary.
Of course we do not think of Mary as God, we think of her as intercessor. But she is with her Son, as she is in the Gospel.
So I think that is a part of the miscommunication/misunderstanding. With our view of Mary as intercessor, to us it makes perfect sense.
I don't know if that answer will be sufficient for you, like I said, there are many more learned people than I, including saints and doctors of the Church who are much more eloquent than I who can give you a better understanding.
Best wishes.