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No offence, but Muslims love Jesus as much as Christians do
The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 12/19/2001 | John Casey

Posted on 12/18/2001 4:10:48 PM PST by Pokey78

SOME years ago, an agnostic friend of mine married a Jewish woman who practised her faith seriously. He took instruction in Judaism and seemed quite likely to convert - but eventually did not. His chief reason was that he remained agnostic. But there was another obstacle that surprised even himself: "I found that I just did not want to give up Jesus."

In European culture, there is no getting away from Jesus even if you are agnostic. True, Nietzsche tried to reject him with detestation and contempt, calling him an "idiot", a purveyor of a sick, decadent view of the world. Nietzsche thought that the only figure in the New Testament who commands respect is Pontius Pilate. Yet the very ferocity of Nietzsche's onslaught on Jesus showed how strong in his heart was the image he wanted to destroy.

Now, what if my friend had married a Muslim? The interesting thing is that he could have kept Jesus - not the Jesus who was the Son of God, admittedly, and who was crucified, but certainly the Jesus who was Messiah and miracle worker, who conversed regularly with God, who was born of a virgin and who ascended into heaven.

Jesus is referred to quite often in the Koran, six times under the title "Messiah". Yet I had long supposed that the importance of Jesus as prophet in Muslim tradition was not much more than a matter of lip-service, something to which Muslims gave (to use Cardinal Newman's distinction) "notional" rather than "real" assent.

This impression was strengthened when I went to Ur of the Chaldees in southern Iraq and visited the so-called house of Abraham. It is only a few piles of sun-baked mud bricks, but you would have expected hundreds of Muslim Arabs to be visiting the birth-place of their Patriarch. I saw none - whereas the shrines of Muslim martyrs in Najaf and Kerbala were thronged. I assumed, therefore, that Jesus must be a marginal figure in the Muslim world.

How wrong this assumption was I have learnt by reading a fascinating and instructive book, The Muslim Jesus, by the Cambridge academic Tarif Khalidi. Professor Khalidi has brought together, from a vast range of sources, most of the stories, sayings and traditions of Jesus that are to be found in Muslim piety from the earliest times.

The Muslim Jesus is an ascetic, a man of voluntary poverty, humility and long-suffering. He literally turns the other cheek, allowing his face to be slapped twice in order to protect two of his disciples. He teaches the return of good for evil: "Jesus used to say, 'Charity does not mean doing good to him who does good to you . . . Charity means that you should do good to him who does you harm.' " He loves the poor and embraces poverty: "The day Jesus was raised to heaven, he left behind nothing but a woollen garment, a slingshot and two sandals." He preaches against attachment to worldly things: "Jesus said, `He who seeks worldly things is like the man who drinks sea water: the more he drinks, the more thirsty he becomes, until it kills him.' "

Many of the sayings of the Muslim Jesus are clearly derived from Biblical sources - "Place your treasures in heaven, for the heart of man is where his treasure is"; "Look at the birds coming and going! They neither reap nor plough, and God provides for them." Sometimes there is a sort of gloss on words of Jesus from the Gospel: "Oh disciples, do not cast pearls before swine, for the swine can do nothing with them . . . wisdom is more precious than pearls and whoever rejects wisdom is worse than a swine."

He is certainly a wonder-worker. He often raises the dead, and gives his disciples power to do the same. More than once he comes across a skull and restores it to life, on one occasion granting salvation to a person who had been damned. The skulls, like everyone else in these stories, address Jesus as "Spirit of God". Once he is even addressed as "Word of God".

I once had a conversation with members of Hizbollah in Beirut. One of them said this: "The greatness of Islam is that we combine Judaism and Christianity. Jesus freed enslaved hearts, he was able to release human feeling, to reveal a kingdom of peace. Jesus's realm was the realm of soul. Jesus is soul; Moses is mind, the mind of the legislator. In Islam, we interweave both."

This is certainly the Jesus of these stories - the Jesus of the mystical Sufi tradition. The great Muslim philosopher Al-Ghazali actually called Jesus "Prophet of the heart".

The Muslim Jesus is not divine, but a humble servant of God. He was not crucified - Islam insists that the story of the killing of Jesus is false. He is, as it were, Jesus as he might have been without St Paul or St Augustine or the Council of Nicaea. He is not the cold figure of English Unitarianism, and he is less grand than the exalted human of the Arians. As you read these stories, what comes across most powerfully is that the Muslim Jesus is intensely loved. There is an element of St Francis of Assisi.

It is good to be reminded, especially now, of the intimate connections there have been between Islam and Christianity, and how close in spirit Muslim and Christian piety can come to each other. Curiously enough, the Muslim Jesus, shorn of all claims of divinity, could be more easily held on to by my agnostic friend than the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

One other thing: since Muslims deny the Crucifixion, their emphasis has been on the wonders surrounding the birth of "Jesus Son of Mary", born as his mother sat under a palm tree, and miraculously speaking from within the womb. There really is no reason why schools that put on Nativity plays, or anyone who wants to insist on the Christian meaning of Christmas, should fear that they may offend Muslim sensibilities, for Jesus really is shared by both faiths.



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To: Mark17
I'm watching the same show.

Heck, Buddha really believed in his supernatural enlightenment, too. :) Talk later.

61 posted on 12/18/2001 5:23:59 PM PST by Doctor Doom
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To: Pokey78
The ignorance of so many of the Gospel of Christ just amazes me. For over 2,000 years all over the world Christianity is known and yet so many are totally clueless. And, it seems the less they know about the plan of God for salvation through Jesus, the more they talk about it.
62 posted on 12/18/2001 5:24:56 PM PST by maranatha
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To: Pokey78
Curiously enough, the Muslim Jesus, shorn of all claims of divinity, could be more easily held on to by my agnostic friend than the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

One other thing: since Muslims deny the Crucifixion, their emphasis has been on the wonders surrounding the birth of "Jesus Son of Mary", born as his mother sat under a palm tree, and miraculously speaking from within the womb.

Somehow I doubt that someone who is agnostic and has not the faith to believe (just the lack of confidence to deny) would believe in a mirable about a baby speaking from within the womb.

PC-BS...

63 posted on 12/18/2001 5:28:29 PM PST by weegee
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To: wimpycat
They don't speak badly about Jesus, in the sense that they respect him as a prophet, but, as you say, they don't love the "real" Jesus, but only their stunted idea of Him.

The deny that He is the Son of God and to deny his crucifixtion is to deny who He is and the debt that He paid.

I do take offense that an author would say that I do not love this man above all else in my life. Certainly muslims do not place Jesus at the top of their existence.

64 posted on 12/18/2001 5:35:08 PM PST by weegee
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To: the_doc
To say that these Muslims love the Biblical Jesus AT ALL, much less as much as Christians do, is a monstrously idiotic notion

Just one more lie from the pit of hell!

65 posted on 12/18/2001 5:36:43 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: crazykatz
Islam is an anti-christ!! CHRIST is the SAVIOR AND THE SON Of GOD!! Muslims are moon worshipers, period....that is all!

Wolves in sheeps clothing.

I have said this often.If they will kill for allah they will lie for him

This is just one more lie to decieve those without discrenment..and from the looks of it there are many..

66 posted on 12/18/2001 5:39:23 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Pokey78
The only trouble is that the Muslim Jesus, as you call it, is just a fictional character to prop up Muhammad and then (in the end) the Mahdi.

The Christian Jesus actually did live and do what the Bible says He did, is actually who the Christians say He is, and will before too many more decades return and prove it.

In any contest between Allah and YHWH, pick YHWH any day. You heard it here first.

67 posted on 12/18/2001 5:40:45 PM PST by crystalk
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To: plastic
How true.

Looks like most of the Christians here disagree with the premise of this article, and are offended by it in fact.

I don't have a dog in this fight, I will let the Christians speak for themselves.

68 posted on 12/18/2001 5:41:22 PM PST by veronica
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To: plastic
Clearly, Muslims do not have THE CHRIST - they have a moralistic teacher. They have damnation.

See what I mean?

69 posted on 12/18/2001 5:43:42 PM PST by veronica
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To: Savage Beast
"I am His. He is Mine. No matter what life brings, or death, He leads me to God. I will follow Him anywhere."

No malice intended, but if your love of Jesus is so strong and sure, what's up with your forum name 'Savage Beast'?

70 posted on 12/18/2001 5:45:08 PM PST by JusticeLives
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To: Ol' Sparky
From those too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent to them: so We estranged them, with enmity and hatred between one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what they have done. 5:14

Actually, that explains a lot.

71 posted on 12/18/2001 5:48:31 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: George W. Bush
Just smile and bow to Mecca..You could be like the President and read moon god stories to the kids.
72 posted on 12/18/2001 6:00:29 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Doctor Doom
Heck, Buddha really believed in his supernatural enlightenment, too. :) Talk later.

Yes, I guess he did. I am now watching the one on the Coleseum. Very interesting place. I saw it when I went to Rome. I was stationed in Germany at the time. I was utterly amazed at the influence the Roman Empire still has on Europe, even some 2,000 years later, or something like that. Later.

73 posted on 12/18/2001 6:09:53 PM PST by Mark17
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To: onyx
This Catholic is thrilled to proclaim I have NOTHING on common with Mohammedanites!

Except that you both have beliefs that your church claims are good enough to get to heaven. Seems like you have a lot in common with Muslims!

74 posted on 12/18/2001 6:15:10 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: Pokey78
One point not considered by the British Press is the inherent hypocrisy of Muslim attitudes toward Jesus. Jesus went way beyond saying he was a prophet or even the Messiah. He referred many times to himself as the Son of God, not a son of God. In denying this Muslims make Christ a liar, therefore an unworthy prophet. This inherent contradiction is difficult to deny. Which Christ stories do Muslims believe? Do they treat the New Testament cafeteria style picking their way past the inconvenient notions of Trinity.

Christ accepted the Jewish prophets, saying He was their fulfillment. Mohammed creates a Jesus that is caricature.If Jesus is worthy to be a prophet His word must be true. If His word is true then He is THE Son of God, for that is what He claims as His mantle. The Jesus of the Muslims cannot exist if Scripture is the source of Islam's vision of Him.

75 posted on 12/18/2001 6:18:33 PM PST by xkaydet65
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To: Pokey78
For another interesting version of Jesus' life, death, and significance, read the Gnostic writings and works on Gnosticism by scholars such as Hans Jonas. And their view of Yahweh and the Old Testament is "alternative" to say the least.
76 posted on 12/18/2001 6:21:54 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: CCWoody
what an inane reply was yours....Catholocism IS Christianity and the greatest heresy in Christianity is Protestantism....Moslems were never Christians, hense do not qualify as heretics. Protestants, on the other hand have drawn more people FROM Christ's truth than most other beliefs combined.
77 posted on 12/18/2001 6:28:27 PM PST by terycarl
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To: Mark17
You're right - but I had to change it to "The Big Red One" on Encore when I realized it was on. I also missed "Duck Soup" on TCM. :(

You know, 99% of the time nothing is on, and then everything good comes on at once.

78 posted on 12/18/2001 6:29:22 PM PST by Doctor Doom
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To: Jack Barbara
You're Greek Orthodox? Or being funny? If the latter, I admit the churches sometimes look heretical, but no, I don't really think so.
79 posted on 12/18/2001 6:32:33 PM PST by docmcb
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To: Doctor Doom
The Big Red One, with Lee Marvin? I saw Pearl Harbor recently, on my DVD surround sound. It kind of brought tears to my eyes, but so did 9-11.
80 posted on 12/18/2001 6:34:01 PM PST by Mark17
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