Arguing the Case for Southern Secession

Lew Rockwell ^ | 12/20/01 | Reviewed by Joseph R. Stromberg

[stand watie]

HI lady,

long time, no see!

for dixie,sw

[LadyJD]

I drop by here when I have the time. FR is a great place to get updates on breaking news but seems to have become a bad place for those not enamoured of the regime.

Merry Christmas!

[stand watie]

YES Ma'am!

the forum is also frequently a unpleasant place for southron patriots as well. in the last 10 days i've gotten NUMEROUS e-mails that accuse us of being UN-AMERICAN! NOTHING is MORE American than being for LIBERTY & FREEDOM, imVho.

i also find it strange that MOST southron patriots have served in the armed forces in wartime, while most of the accusers didn't serve period (wee willie klintoon for one.)! one thing is for certain: running one's mouth is SAFER than military service!

for dixie,sw

[Non-Sequitur]

But again you make a claim without having any idea if it is true or not. I would worry about how you look rather than how I look if I were you. I'll just chalk this one up as yet another 'stande watie whopper' and let it go at that.

[l8pilot]

Southern Independence is going to happen. There is just too much difference between the "blue zone", Al Gore, North-east, and west-coast, and the traditional "Confederate South". Southern independence never looked so good...

For a free South

Larry Salley

[stand watie]

as you are easily identified as one of the main anti-southron bigots on the forum, frankly i don't care what you think about me OR what you think of southron liberty.

nonetheless, the damnyankee propaganda you post is typical of the ignorant, arrogant, extremist,leftist, racebaiting northeastern revisionists of the "poison ivy covered halls" of academia;thus, it makes interesting, if not accurate/truthful, reading.

for dixie,sw

[stand watie]

VERY too true!

as i've said numerous times: i will not likely live to see southron independence BUT my 11 year-old niece will live to bask in SOUTHRON LIBERTY in a FREE and much improved southron republic. (naysayers are reminded herewith that Ireland struggled for independence for FOUR HUNDRED YEARS!)

LIBERTY cannot come too soon! for dixie,sw

[Non-Sequitur]

as you are easily identified as one of the main anti-southron bigots on the forum, frankly i don't care what you think about me OR what you think of southron liberty.

Coming from the premier male anti-northern bigot on this forum you of all people should know what hatred is. But I also take it with a grain of salt given the lack of accuracy you have shown in your posts in the past.

[CAScot]

The usual response of all the paperwork pushers!

First you assume that if any black served in CSA units they must have served in a segregated unit.

Then you assume that with it being illegal to enlist blacks, those who did so would have documented their breaking of regulations!

I was in the military in a maintenance function. According to regulation we were supposed to have X of item 'A' when we needed 3X of that item Y of item 'B' we never used an none of 'C' which was necessary. Needless to say we had 3X of A, non of 'B' except for the empty boxes and a sufficiency of 'C'. Of course there was an inventory every now and then but we were very good at counting what we did not have and not counting what we did!
According to the records we had X of 'A', Y of 'B' and none of 'C'. My CO was quite aware of the situation, and I have never heard of any other maintenance unit in the military, not even those of other branches, which functioned any different! Kept the bean counters happy!

If I had been in the CSA at that time I know how I would have dealt with the situation. The CSA always was short of men, and if someone wanted to fight, and I was forbidden to enlist him, I would have only two problems 1) how to get him a gun and food and 2) how to make sure he got paid. The easiest way would be to make him an "honorary white" and then enlist him as "white", enlisting him as an Indian would have been better - CSA units were not forbidden to enlist American Indians. Maybe I could have enlisted him as a teamster - might not have been authorized horses or wagons but we might need teamsters if we captured a Yankee supply train. There's all kinds of ways of doing things like that, limited only by the imagination of those needing men in the lines!

It was fairly easy for Lee, Davis and the whole CSA congress to not see something they really didn't WANT to see. Lee was a good CO, records DO make it plain he was loved by his men, and one of the traits of a good CO is knowing when to not officially see things! A trait of good NCOs is to conduct officers on inspections in such a manner they do not see anything they would object to and have to notice officially!

Now they have a bunch of bean counters posing as historians, who only accept physical records and ignore all anecdotal evidence (reports of people who saw something not shown to be true by the records)

However a rational person faced with anecdotal evidence of things contrary to that documentation merely figures that that is the tip of an iceberg and there are a whole lot more which are undocumented and unseen as well!

Bean counters are easy to get around by pencil whipping forms!
Yankees are dumb enough to believe that Southerners would DOCUMENT when they were violating regulations!

[CAScot]

The poor men of the South are the holders of one to five slaves, and it would be equally consistent with truth and justice to say that they represent, in reality, its slaveholding interest.

Just using a currency converter you have to realize that someone who owned 5 slaves would have a capital net worth of $300,000 minimum, however many sources I've seen claim it would be $100,000 per slave in today's money.

I'd sure like to be poor by THOSE standards!

[CAScot]

Well I can't let that one go! Lincoln in 1864 was even more inept a war leader than Johnson was in 1964!
Lincoln and Davis BOTH micromanaged the war to extreme, the only difference was that Davis was a West Point graduate and at least knew a little about such things, and Lincoln didn't have a clue about what he was doing!
To put Lincoln in a class with Washington as a war leader is shear idiocy, and proves a total lack of knowledge in military leadership principles! It wasn't until Teddy Roosevelt that we had another war leader who was in a class with Washington!
Granted there were men like Taylor who might have been competent in that area, but they were not leaders during wartime!

[CAScot]

I wouldn't go NEAR Harlem (which in in NYC) and Detroit, or Chicago either, they're all north of Virginia!
I wouldn't even go into those cities and talk about Southern beliefs to people in the Mayors office! Black or white, it is in the best economic interests of 'those people' to keep the Lincolnian version sacred - It is curious that all the current issue over things Southern started when the rust belt begin bleeding taxpayers, and found it advantageous to try an portray the South as being racked with racial hostility and a bad place to live.


However I do live in the South, and I do talk to lot of black people in the South about such beliefs, and the amount of negative reaction I get is well below 25%.

[exmarine]

It would have helped if you had posted what I said. This thread took place 2 years ago.

In any case, it is a subjective judgment as to whether or not Lincoln was a great wartime leader, isn't it. Most historians would say that he was. You disagree. You have that right. There is zero doubt that he was a very clever politician, and zero doubt that he had the correct perspective on the conduct of the war - and his generals were WRONG most of the time. McClellan, Hooker, Meade - all failed to go after Lee's Army at crucial junctures and/or fell back after they got a bloody nose. Lincoln understood (CORRECTLY!) that the real object was Lee's Army, not Richmond. Lincoln's strategy was vindicated in the prosecution of the war by U.S. Grant. Lincoln repeatedly told his generals that their object of attack was Lee, and Grant was the ONLY general who carried out this aim in the East - and it worked. The war was not won until Lee surrendered his Army. So, how was it that those "West Point graduates" were WRONG about the correct way to prosecute the war, but dumb lanky ole Abe was right? I think you got some 'splainin' to do.

[southland]

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