Arab American Who Guards Bush Is Barred From Flight

Reuters | 12/27/01

[MissAmericanPie]

I'm not a gun control advocate at all. Just because someone is a government agent should not qualify him to carry when other citizens are denied their Constitutional right to carry, it creates an elite group, and gives power into the hands of only the "chosen few". I don't think that is a good idea at all that government be allowed to dictate who the few are.

[takenoprisoner]

The question I have is how did he get to his seat armed without confirmation as to his identity to begin with?

[Roscoe]

"chosen few"

Misleading euphemism.

[MissAmericanPie]

What's misleading about it? Can you carry a gun onboard a flight? If the answer is no, then your Constitutional rights are being violated. Very simple really.

[CA Conservative]

Suspension or firing????

Not at all. Once again, whether he flies or not is the Captains perrogative, no person, regardless of their employment circumvents that authority, ever.

You need to read the actual article tbeatty was referring to... In the article, it explicitly states that another captain that refused to allow an armed FBI agent on the flight under similar circumstances was suspended.

Sorry, but you just have your facts wrong on this one...

[Roscoe]

Very simple really.

Simplistic perhaps.

[Nate505]

None of them, but CJ has an obsession with Libertarians, which is why he can't post a single post without mentioning them, or the words hendonist/ideologue/relativism....

[NittanyLion]

None of them, but CJ has an obsession with Libertarians, which is why he can't post a single post without mentioning them, or the words hendonist/ideologue/relativism....

I know. But I couldn't help but to mention the fact that those two were marching out of lockstep.

[takenoprisoner]

One way the Secret Service could have avoided this might have been to call ahead and contact airport and airline security & tell them the man was coming on this flight.

So could a terrorist call ahead for his fellow terrorist claiming he is with the SS and that a fellow SS agent will be flying today armed? Let's say you are the rep for the airline at the other end of the phone, what's your call? Just take the word of the caller?

[MissAmericanPie]

Yeah, sure...if your into giving up what's yours.

[GussiedUp]

You would think that knowing that he is armed and an Arab, would give this Einstein a clue that perhaps he should have the Secret Services confirm his bona fides before he showed up for the flight?

yes, I think in this instance one in his position and background probably should err on the side of common sense and should have done just that.

[tbeatty]

Suspension or firing????

Not at all. Once again, whether he flies or not is the Captains perrogative, no person, regardless of their employment circumvents that authority, ever.

American Airlines owns the plane and the procdeures. Pilots obviously have the last word on who flies when they are the pilot in command. But who is the pilot in command is up to American Airlines. My comment on suspension or firing was based on a similiar incident in September where an FBI agent was denied passage by the Captain. The captain was suspended by American Airlines.

[tbeatty]

One way the Secret Service could have avoided this might have been to call ahead and contact airport and airline security & tell them the man was coming on this flight. Time constraints may have prevented doing this -- the fact the agent was on a commercial flight at all was apparently due to a last minute schedule change by the President. There may not have been time for prior notification. Or maybe it is that it simply did not occur to the Secret Service because Secret Service agents fly quite regularly and there had not been any previous problem. Probably would not have been a problem this time either, except this particular agent is Arab-American. This may not have occurred to the Secret Service as a problem -- they are probably used to dealing with him as just another fellow-agent.

All evidence so far says he followed the procedures which includes notifying the airline at least an hour before departure, being listed on the manifest as a SS agent and armed. Those procedures and his credentials/ID and most likely a letter from the SS saying he is required to be armed for his job got him past the security checkpoint.

Apparently, the airline has another form that armed passengers fill out and it was this form that the Captain questioned and had discrepancies. This was obviously worked out in the agents favor since he took the next flight.

[tbeatty]

The issue of Islam versus non-Islamic has nothing to do with race. Get your definitions straight. IT has everything to do with mental perspective and political and philosophical views. If you trust a group of people who believe that a state religion is desireable, that individuals have no right to hold religious views contrary to theirs, that women should be treated as a species of livestock,that violence is an acceptable form of behavior for dealing with non-believers, then you have the problem not me.

It is indeed surprising to see the racist card drawn in a forum as intellectual as this one.

Then I'll call it religious intolerance. Here's your statement: On the otherhand, a Muslim, of whatever ethnicity, should NOT be guarding our President - PERIOD.

My point can be easily made by replacing Muslim with _fill_in_the_blank_. Every religion, ethnic group and country has it's radical and extreme elements. Your blanket prejudice against a single religion (or ethnicity or country) is simply offensive.

And make no mistake, this agents religion wasn't the issue. Last time I checked, you can't tell religion from appearance.

[Cacique]

Indira Ghandi was assasinated by her own loyal Sikh guards. Many a Roman emperor lost his head to the Praetorian guards.

My father used to say that trust is good, but not trusting is better.

Maybe Bushie junior should heed the advice.

[cynicom]

I believe in my previous post, I made it quite clear, the Captain opens himself for a reprimand, nevertheless, he has the last word. I believe we all have too few "facts", my only assertion is that Captain was within his rights to refuse to have him aboard. That pertains to anyone, the fact that the person was SS is irrelevant to the Captains choice, right or wrong.

[ZULU]

I think Islam has demonstrated, both historically and in a current context, that it is a bogus religion, antithetical to everything this country and the western world stands for. It is as legitmate in my eyes as communism, devil worship or voodoo. Toleration can be carried to idiotic and self-destructive extremes and the continued recognition of Islam as a legimiate religion in this country has ceased to make any logical sense.

When the overwhelming number of airline terrorists are Muslims, why should non-Muslims be forced to travel in fear in the company of these misanthropes?

Is every Muslim a potential threat to society? Probably not. However, the institution of Islam definitely is, and I think tolerating this viciously anti-American, anti-western, anti-Christian and anti-Semitic sect in our own country is doing our national security a disservice. And although there are some Christian Arabs, the overwhelming majority of them are Muslim.

Unlike the situation with respect to Muslims living in western society, non-Muslims live a threatened, third class existence in ALL Islamic societies as a result of the basic tenets of Islam. Consequently most Arabs are Muslims.

Islam is as dedicated to the destruction of western society and western ideals as was Nazism or Communism, and its about time we woke up and recognized this fact and stopped treating these subversives in our midst as though they were a legitimate religion. They are not.