Posted on 12/29/2001 12:15:26 AM PST by Enemy Of The State
Oh yes they did. They tried to get America to agree to that as a precondition to cooperation on the war on terrorism. I will look around here and try to find a news report of that...
Different opinions don't mean disintegration of the territory.
Yeah but it does mean disentigration of one party "Maoism/Marxism only" rule.
The real reason why the US wants to trade with China is that the trade is in the American interets.
America interests: #1. To get radical whackos who don't like America out of power, and to empower people who are friendly. We want to remove direct threats. You cannot accomplish this goal just by killing someone. One bad thing must be replaced by one good thing.
#2. After #1 is accomplished we are free to have as much people to people contact we want, learn, and then make money.
#2 does not proceed #1.
The Qing dynasty...
The Qing the Qing the Qing. China of the Qing is not China of the CCP. The word "China" does not refer to territory alone. It refers to the administrative rule of whoever the rulers are. Was the Qin dynasty the same territory as the Qing? NO. They were about 1/3 the size or smaller. Qin Shi Huang de 'zhong guo' refered to his feudal rule, not just his territory. It refered to his whole empire. When the Han came along, a new empire was born, and same with the Tang, the Ming or anyone else. The idea that "China" has always had the same borders that it has now is not true. There were times when multiple "Chinas" all existed at the same time.
America is not concerned about the Qing. Why not mention something in the last 50 years? The Qing is a ticket/excuse for the CCP doing absolutely anything they want.
China has a problem with this whole excuse thing.
>>All this "we are going to surpass America and take over Asia" talk,
Who said that?
Its been the talk for who knows how long. China's economy is going to surpass America's. America is in decline and China is on the rise...
There is an excellent resource. A man named Michael Pillsbury wrote some excellent books including things on that topic of China viewing America as a 'power in decline'.
A great deal of the hardline stuff has already been disentegrated over the past 20 yrs. The extent of what it will happen over the next 20 is what I am concerned about. I am of the impression that economics alone won't do it. For the last 20 yrs it was basically 'let economics run its course'. For the next 20 that alone won't work.
I think we should abandon the "one China" policy and recognize Taiwan. Why play games with China when they are currently preparing for war? It would be better to arm Taiwan so they are able to defend themselves in case we cannot immediately come to their aid.
One China is a fairy tale. Its a figment of the imagination and creative recreation of revisionist history.
I don't care if Taiwan is independent. Thats cool with me. What I don't want to see is an extended unresolved fight. An America-Canada relationship type thing would work for me.
If the Mainland thinks they are going to take Taiwan and not make any concessions, I don't think so. If they want to hurt 25 million innocent people just out of their own pride and to extend the power of the CCP, that is unacceptable.
The fight is not between "China" and Taiwan. It is between the CCP and people who don't want to submit to them.
I think we should defend Taiwan for sure and be real clear about it, in ways of laws and the like. We need a missile sheild all around Taiwan and across Asia.
"Before, 'engagement' with the Chinese meant drinking tea and talking stories"..."but we want to change that definition."
As I know, China mentioned "Xinjiang terrorists" and "Taiwan separatists".
>>Yeah but it does mean disentigration of one party "Maoism/Marxism only" rule.
You don't think Maoism has already disentegrated?
>>There were times when multiple "Chinas" all existed at the same time.
There were times when multiple "states" existed in China. They were all in Chinese territory and part of Chinese history. Don't you think the history of "three kingdoms" is Chinese history?
>>The Qing is a ticket/excuse for the CCP doing absolutely anything they want.
Not only for the CCP. It was also for all Chinese governments after Qing, including the KMT.
>>A man named Michael Pillsbury wrote some excellent books including things on that topic of China viewing America as a 'power in decline'.
I don't think the majority of Chinese people, including the leadership will believe that.
>>An America-Canada relationship type thing would work for me.
America and Canada are two indenpendent countries, while the Mainland and Taiwan are separated due to the Chinese civil war between the CCP and the KMT.
>>If the Mainland thinks they are going to take Taiwan and not make any concessions, I don't think so.
China is offering "one country two systems".
>>If they want to hurt 25 million innocent people just out of their own pride and to extend the power of the CCP, that is unacceptable.
If it's the will of 1.3 billion people?
The U.S. is on bended knees for the Communist Chinese both economically and militarily. Of course our economy is shaken up by us doing business with them. We should be boycotting business with them altogether for we are strengthening their military by buying their shitty products some of which is labored by slave labor in China.
The Chinese already have nuclear weapons and know how to use them, they have missiles and a funtioning military but I don't think that is how they will defeat America.
They have been slowly involving themselves in our manufacturing businesses,(what's left of it) retail, transportation, and our FOOD importation and distribution.
Our political system is corrupt and cash will buy anything desired. Our Congressmen will not protect the Constitution.
For forty years the United Nations has very effectively been slithering into our federal agencies demanding control of the American population. The majority of our current population is ignorant of the intention of the Founders in the design of the Constitution and the purpose of the Bill of Rights.
So unless we get up off our lazy asses and start making drastic corrections the FREEDOMS and LIBERTIES that our service men and women have died for will be forever gone,probably within the next decade.
you nailed that one, sir. it's in the 10 step plan. they have control of the schools
and are turning out millions of little red shirts every year to replace those of
us who have actually read and understood those few hard fought-for pages of
reality we call our constitution. they now are taking control of the American property.
we can teach our children well, but as long as the socialist/communist
ilk controls education (and it would not be possible without federal
"education") we will be a dying breed. that's how it is... God bless those
who home school... but the "majority" of today's kids who go to federal schools
will be the majority of tomorrow's voters. sad. the new batch of
voters were in daycare when Ronald Reagan was president. who's to teach them?
that's not an indictment, it's a call to arms.
They have been slowly involving themselves in our manufacturing businesses,(what's left of it) retail, transportation, and our FOOD importation and distribution. "
Bingo! You're on the mark with that one.
For those who dont think so, "As for the United States, For a relatively long time it wil be absolutely necessary that we quietly nurse our sense of vengeance....We must conceal our abilities and bide our time.
--Lieutenant General Mi Zhenyu
Vice Commandant, Academy of Military Sciences, Beijing
"To fight and conquer is not supreme excelencek supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"
--Sun Tzu
The Art of War
This book is still read and studied in the Chinese military academy's as well as by the Communist leaders themselves. IMHO I think our politicians should be required to read it as well.
You can find spunky the dog and Princess the cat in many American toy toy stores. They are cute and cuddly. They are also manufactured and imported into the United States by a branch of the Chinese People's Liberation Army--or, to be precise, by a subsidary of Nornico, the Chinese ordnance company that supplies the PLA with most of its weapons. Norinco now has an estimated TEN subsidary companies spread around the United States.
Many Americans will be surprised to learn that the Chinese military-industrial complex, with the People's Liberation Army at its center, has incorporated many companies in the United States to sell products and obtain technology. Researchers for the AFL-CIO have identified 10 of what they call PLA-sponsored business groups in the United States, each of which typically has several subsidary companies. A lot of these companies move things around: they are freight forwarders and distributors and import-export concerns brining in a variety of products, from frozen fish and spices to firearms and overhauled engines. Two of the many companies owned by china's armed forces got un-wanted publicity in 1996 when the FBI uncovered a San Francisco smuggling ring that had attempted illegally to bring two thousand AK-47 automatic assault rifles into the United States. Two PLA linked firms, one of them being Nornico; the other a company called Poly Technologies, which is run by the PLA's General Staff Dept. were involved in the smuggling. The companies are not only linked to the PLA and China's top political leadership, but they also number among their directors the children or in-laws of senior leaders.
For the most part I agree with you however before doing so we need to make sure that we have our security alliances in the Asian region in Check because once we officially abandon the "one China" policy there is going to be a giant regional conflict and we will find ourselves right smack dab in the middle of it. Second, there are other undlerlying motives for the US as to the reason why we support Taiwan. Its not because we are the Defenders of Democracy and because our Govt. Truely cares about Taiwan. Its is due to Strategical interests. If Taiwan should fall back under the Mainlands control then China will effectively control the entire China sea and all access to its shipping lanes. This would enable China to restrict all access to that region of world and allow them to effectively cut restrict Japans supply of natural resources. This would no doubt allow China to be come the Regional superpower or hedonist, however you want to put it. As for the Spratly islands, China has just been probing around taking pieces of land little by little to test the world to see who would interfere and come to their aid seeing as how the Philippines are the main group of islands that lay claim to the majority of the Spratlys. China seeks to replace the United States as the balance of power in the Asian region.
What would this do to our economy while their economy was roaring ahead? All without a shot being fired they would gather the number one position in world trade! All thanks to our refusal to think ahead. All thanks to our submission to the New World Order. All thanks to our allowance of letting the socialists in our own government violate the Constitution.
Don't worry because the United Nations would protect us. /disgusting sarcasm
I think you are on to something. I would only replace "China" with "CCP". The CCP wants to control all of Asia...the average joe has no say in it, only that the CCP justify their intentions by every measure of propaganda known to man.
There is a lot more to the Taiwan question than just the old rhetoric stuff.
Historically China controlled Vietnam, Korea, and the Philippines. That was just before the Brits invaded. Now they are trying to restore 'their' kingdom by the same means they built 'the kingdom' in the first place...by feudally conquering, and ruling by propaganda, and re-educating everyone who opposes.
That is exactly how every dynasty in Chinese history has operated, and especially the Qing. The feudal Chinese are nothing more than colonizers. The thing they hate, THEY ARE.
Now I know our leaders are supposed to read and study Bills before they vote on them. This is a practice that has been determined to be unnecessary as GATT, NAFTA and the USA PATRIOT ACT have proven. Were the Congressmen allowed their recent pay raise because they did not object to the USA PATRIOT ACT ? You tell me.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.