You cribbed that from probably the same place I stole this:
Lex clavatoris designati delenda est
Glad it's only in the American League
Sic semper tyranosaurus!
Posted on 01/02/2002 1:15:38 PM PST by Theresa
There is considerable confusion about the Catholic teaching of salvation. I found this on the internet. It was written by a former Presbyterian who became Catholic as an adult. It should be easy to understand he explains the docterine very well. .........
The phrase (in Latin, "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" or "Outside the Church there is no salvation") is a very ancient one, going back to the very early days of Christianity. It was originally meant to affirm the necessity of baptism and Christian faith at a time when
(a) A number of Christians were being tempted under torture to renounce their faith and deny Christ. (He's talking about the Roman Empire and Nero's persecution of Christians, throwing them to lions and such.) (b) Large groups of Christians were being led into "pseudo-Christian" cult-type groups, which were actually just a front for pagan philosophy and religion. (Such as the cult of Mithras which I think was practiced around the time after Jesus died.)
In response, bishops repeated that, if a person were to be aware of the meaning of Christ and then freely deny him or reject him, they had essentially turned away from God and the salvation he offers.
As Christians, we believe that we are saved only through Jesus. As St. Peter reminds his audience in Acts 4:12: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved." In most cases, this means that we believe baptism in water, in the name of the Trinity, is the fundamental requirement for salvation.
However, even from the beginning, the great Christian writer and teacher St. Augustine said that the salvation imparted through baptism can also be imparted through other means: specifically, through the "baptism of blood" (a non-Christian who dies defending Christian beliefs or holy places) and "the baptism of desire" (a non-Christian who has expressed a firm desire to become a Christian, and who shows all the signs of living a Christian life, but who dies before baptism). In both of those cases, the Church has always recognized that the Holy Spirit leads people to God in ways which we cannot always explain or document.
God is able to save anyone he chooses. We trust that he often does this is ways that are not obvious to us, within the hearts of individuals who are sincerely seeking the truth. Otherwise, it would imply that all of humanity was excluded from salvation before Christ came, and that much of humanity (which has not had the opportunity to hear the Christian message until recently) was doomed to be eternally separated from God. This would imply a very cruel and elitist God. Our belief as Christians and Catholics is that God desires the salvation of all people … even those who are not Christian. How he achieves that, however, is a mystery. But we know that our God is a loving God who would not allow people to suffer on account of an ignorance that they were not responsible for.
The Church teaches that baptism, faith, and a life lived in Christ are necessary for salvation. However, Vatican II also taught that, within every human heart, God places the law of conscience. Everybody has a deep sense of right and wrong which ultimately comes from God, and which will lead people to God if they attempt to follow their conscience faithfully. Because Jesus is God, those who move in the direction of God (even non-Christians) are ultimately moving in the direction of Jesus. And if they are moving in the direction of Jesus and His truth, ultimately they are expressing a desire for the salvation that God gives. The Church teaches that, while it is certainly easier to receive salvation as a Christian, it is not impossible to receive salvation in other religions.
This is a challenging situation: on one hand, we must be respectful of the good things to be found in other faiths, and encourage people to live their faiths with sincerity and love.
On the other hand, this does not mean that all religions are the same. We believe that Christ is the ultimate revealing of God to the world, and that the more we know about his message, the greater the chance that we will accept his offer and be saved. We must therefore continue to preach the message of the Gospel, and encourage interested non-Catholics to examine the claims of our faith, without in any way coercing or intimidating them.
Father Feeney was an American priest who, back in the 1940s, taught that if a person was not a Roman Catholic, they were condemned to hell. This has never been the accepted teaching of Catholicism, and Father Feeney was reprimanded by the Vatican for his mistaken understanding.
Nevertheless, there are groups which continue to hold to this strict interpretation, even after the Pope and bishops have specifically rejected it.
The phrase "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" teaches us that salvation is only through Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life. But God is able to save whomever he pleases, whether they are baptized in the Roman Catholic Church or not.
It is important to remember that "the Church" in this phrase does not refer exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church. Salvation is a great gift, and God is a loving Father who wants all of his children to receive it. How he works this out, however, we will only understand in heaven. That is why, whenever we quote "Outside the Church, there is no salvation", we should also remember that "God is in no way bound by the sacraments."
Until then, we continue to proclaim Jesus as Lord (evangelization) and engage in respectful dialogue with followers of other religions, to discover the truths that God had revealed to them to guide them toward salvation, and to share with them the truth as we have discovered it in Christ.
They'll take into account my American ancestry, culpability, and ignorance.
She's their queen, not mine. I have no queen, but a living King.
So, all protestants who died before Vatican II went to hell, and those since you are more accepting of? i.e. Not, maybe going to hell?
I suggest you look up the word "culpability." Everything hinges on that.
SD
You cribbed that from probably the same place I stole this:
Lex clavatoris designati delenda est
SD
I liked your article, and generally I agree with it.
However, by printing that article there is a danger that the readers will get the wrong understanding. They will take it to far. They may conclude that the Church basically says that ALL who follow their conscious are saved, they dont really need to follow the Church or anything. This is obviously wrong. Given todays grave misunderstandings on what it means to say "follow your conscious" you can pretty much gurantee there will be more confusion than enlightenment on this issue.
Also, although one theoretically can be saved by not being a full fledged member of the Catholic Church, this doesnt in anyway say they will be saved. The Church offers soo many graces(through sacraments) and forms the conscious so well that one may say that one is very unlikely to be saved outside the Church. THe risks are too great. Even Augustine believed in the "Massa Damnata" which basically means the great majority of people will be damned.
Another problem with publishing this paper, is it fails to notice that following your concscious would lead you to joining the Catholic Church. Hence anybody who doesnt act upon the intuition to investigate the Church, or does not join when they may feel it is true, is directly violating their conscious. So they would not be saved.
In conclusion, the "salvation outside the Church" doctrine is very complicated and not as simple as this article portrays. GIven our culture we are in, and our current presuppositions, publishing that article would lead people to more misunderstandings of Catholic theology than understandings.
You cribbed that from probably the same place I stole this:
Lex clavatoris designati delenda est
Glad it's only in the American League
Sic semper tyranosaurus!
Not for me, thanks. catholics have their "extra-canon" books; which are not recognized by protestants as being inspired writing. Some were added to your canon waaaay late, to drum up support for the practice of issuing indulgences.
Follow the money.
Or did you mean
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est?
Does that mean "not catholic anymore"?
WELCOME ABOARD SD, I'm not either!
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est?
Doesn't it work either way?
SD
WELCOME ABOARD SD, I'm not either!
It's all about culpability.
SD
I'd rather we use your definition. I don't want to part with a hug and a handshake.
Truth cannot be different, for different people. If your truth is not the same as my truth; one of us is wrong.
You and I, as well -- and a veritable HOST of others -- I might add.
I'd rather we use your definition. I don't want to part with a hug and a handshake.
You mean this definition from Trent?
After this Catholic doctrine on justification, which whosoever does not faithfully and firmly accept cannot be justified.
What of it? Those who don't accept our teaching cannot be justified. Does that mean that small children and the feeble can not be justified? No. There are always exceptions for culpability.
SD
"the truth"...there is false truth--generic truth---and top shelf TRUTH---
give me a fresh bottle---throw out the cap and pour me a double!
Die dulci freure
"the truth"...there is false truth--generic truth---and top shelf TRUTH---
give me a fresh bottle---throw out the cap and pour me a double!
veritas semper veritas
I'm not the pot calling the kettle black. We agree that nasty things have been done in the name of God; by a whole passle of denominations.
The "creed" they believed has the same articles of "faith" that binds on Catholic Christians today.
but y'all catholics have them "extra" books that even the early church didn't recognize as inspired.
Boy, I guess Protestants would never do anything corrupt with "money" in your book, would they?
In my Book, EVERY man is totally depraved until God extends grace and they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Matters not his religion.
Like that perverted creep FDR and his buddies who imposed the socialist income tax on all of us!
Amen! Like those other perverted creeps, JFK, and WJC.
You GO!
I'll be justified by faith in Jesus, but not faith in the RCC, thank you.
Handshake?
SD
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