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Removed agent honorable: Bush
Daily Telegraph (Australia) ^ | 08jan02

Posted on 01/09/2002 3:39:27 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie

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To: duckln
Why would an minority pilot kick off a white guy?

He wouldn't, absent good reason. That's why this argument that a pilot can kick off anyone for any reason is foolish (even if technically true). If someone wants to make an argument, state that the agent may have deserved it based on his actions.

81 posted on 01/09/2002 6:19:00 AM PST by NittanyLion
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: Byron_the_Aussie
So pardon me if I'm a bit cynical about the way so many are turning on this Arab one.

For me this has nothing to do with the guys race. It has to do with an angry LEO and whether the pilot has to put up with that and should the pilot err on the side of safety or not.

83 posted on 01/09/2002 6:35:15 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: norton
The agent got up and left the plane when it was delayed, leaving carry on luggage behind and that luggage included a book in arabic or concerning islam which another passenger and stewardess noted during his absence

This alone showed he was arrogant. I can't tell you how many times your hear that stupid recording not to leave your luggage unattended.

84 posted on 01/09/2002 6:43:59 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: norton
Finally, aircraft captains share the responsibility and authority of a ship's captain - they get to make the decision when passengers become a problem

Plus the SS agent could have made it simple for everyone by stowing his gun. It was his arrogance that he be allowed to carry it that caused the problems. When it became an issue he should have just stowed it.

85 posted on 01/09/2002 6:45:58 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: VRWC_minion
This alone showed he was arrogant. I can't tell you how many times your hear that stupid recording not to leave your luggage unattended.

I was delayed a few months ago, and the pilot allowed passengers to go back into the concourse while leaving their carry ons aboard the plane.

86 posted on 01/09/2002 6:59:48 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: VRWC_minion
Plus the SS agent could have made it simple for everyone by stowing his gun. It was his arrogance that he be allowed to carry it that caused the problems. When it became an issue he should have just stowed it.

The agent is legally entitled to carry the gun at all times, including aboard airliners.

87 posted on 01/09/2002 7:00:33 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: a_witness
He's been with the SS for 7 years, but I don't believe he's been on the Presidential detail that long -- the question about his possible "promotion" is a good point. Conversely, his demotion, at any time after 9/11, might have created a complaint to CAIR, I would venture. Another unanswered question is how this guy, obviously Arab, came to be flying commercial on Christmas, a day I'm sure the airlines were doubly apprehensive, and on American Airlines, who has lost 2 planes to terrorism, and very nearly a third (shoe-bomber) the week before? A setup?

What I chuckle about is Bush's remarks on Saturday that on 9/11, when he made his decision to go after the perpetrators, he didn't "talk to any lawyers" -- a remark designed to appeal to conservatives, but one that's being contradicted by his support of this agent. Double-speak?

88 posted on 01/09/2002 7:03:02 AM PST by browardchad
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To: NittanyLion
He wouldn't, absent good reason. That's why this argument that a pilot can kick off anyone for any reason is foolish (even if technically true)

IMO, and many others, the pilot will do what he's thinks is best. He should set the rules, not PC advocates unconcerned what the safety risks are.

Essentially it's a private interprise and the Government should not be involved. Complaints are better handled by the enterprise involved and free market choices. Across the board the Government should get out of the business of micro managing schools, restaurants, etc., with stupid law.

89 posted on 01/09/2002 7:05:28 AM PST by duckln
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To: NittanyLion
He wouldn't, absent good reason. That's why this argument that a pilot can kick off anyone for any reason is foolish (even if technically true)

IMO, and many others, the pilot will do what he's thinks is best. He should set the rules, not PC advocates unconcerned what the safety risks are.

Essentially it's a private interprise and the Government should not be involved. Complaints are better handled by the enterprise involved and free market choices. Across the board the Government should get out of the business of micro managing schools, restaurants, etc., with stupid law.

90 posted on 01/09/2002 7:07:23 AM PST by duckln
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To: NittanyLion
He wouldn't, absent good reason. That's why this argument that a pilot can kick off anyone for any reason is foolish (even if technically true)

IMO, and many others, the pilot will do what he's thinks is best. He should set the rules, not PC advocates unconcerned what the safety risks are.

Essentially it's a private interprise and the Government should not be involved. Complaints are better handled by the enterprise involved and free market choices. Across the board the Government should get out of the business of micro managing schools, restaurants, etc., with stupid law.

91 posted on 01/09/2002 7:08:57 AM PST by duckln
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To: duckln
Essentially it's a private interprise and the Government should not be involved.

I agree wholeheartedly. And that includes bailouts.

92 posted on 01/09/2002 7:10:46 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion
The agent is legally entitled to carry the gun at all times, including aboard airliners.

But even the agent is required to have the forms filed in advance, ussually a full day. It was the changing of planes that caused the problems. If under the circumstances he was bounced from another planned flight where the paper work would have been filed in advance and was attempting to board another flight at the last minute you would think he could have been more accomodating by suggesting he stow his gun instead of filling out more paperwork.

The fact that he didn;t indicates to me he was arrogant.

93 posted on 01/09/2002 7:25:34 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: NittanyLion
I was delayed a few months ago, and the pilot allowed passengers to go back into the concourse while leaving their carry ons aboard the plane.

Key difference. You were ALLOWED to leave your luggage. This guy ASSUMED it was ok. You and the passengers were following instructions. This SS agent wasn't following instructions. He was arrogant, you were not.

94 posted on 01/09/2002 7:28:34 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: browardchad
but one that's being contradicted by his support of this agent. Double-speak?

He isn't supporting the agent. Saying he "would be surprised if" is like saying he was a good guy when accepting his resignation. If he were really supporting the agent his language would be much stronger.

95 posted on 01/09/2002 7:31:26 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: browardchad
After reading all the comments on this thread and the ones on previous threads, it seems to me that the following is true - the person involved acted in such a way that the pilot had a duty AND a responsibility to deny him a seat on his plane. And it also seems to me that the posters who deny this must have an ulterior motive to kick up all this dust.
96 posted on 01/09/2002 7:49:52 AM PST by ZeitgeistSurfer
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To: Kevin Curry
"And, yes it did turn out that the jerk was a SS agent. Hindsight is marvelous."

You're twisting the facts! The agent was cleared by airport security, had already been welcomed by one pilot and presented himself to the 2nd flight crew and captain as an SS agent. The 2nd pilot was an arrogant nitwit. Bush's character reference for the guy is here on this thread. What part of that character reference indicates the guy is a load mouth punk like AA claims?

97 posted on 01/09/2002 8:11:23 AM PST by spunkets
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To: TwakeIDFins
Nonetheless, why not goto CAIR? It's an advocacy organization, well versed in speaking out on behalf of Islamic Americans.

Can't believe you haven't been flamed on this yet. You ask 'why not go to CAIR?. My question for you is 'why go to CAIR. What exactly is this man's complaint? That he was subjected to the same treatment as the rest of the flying public? He could learn from Dingle's behavior.

98 posted on 01/09/2002 8:20:24 AM PST by GSWarrior
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Time for hot headed Freepers to bow out?

So you'll be bowing out?

As far as the getting to the truth of the matter -- which is what most of us have been concerned with, here is a remark from Bush, "I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to comment on something which I did not see."

Hopefully you aren't commiting the non-sequitur that since President Bush generally supports an employee that somehow it makes the agent's "story" credible?

99 posted on 01/09/2002 8:50:14 AM PST by UberVernunft
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To: spunkets
The agent was cleared by airport security, had already been welcomed by one pilot and presented himself to the 2nd flight crew and captain as an SS agent.

Airport security cleared the terrorists on 9/11 also. The second pilot has no idea if the agent was the same person that another pilot cleared.

This pilot was already making an accomdation for the plane that got bumped and his main job is to fly the plane safely, not to clear passengers. The pilot should have just bounced him at the outset and said he didn't have time to clear him if he insisted on carrying his gun and not just stowing it with his luggage.

100 posted on 01/09/2002 8:50:18 AM PST by VRWC_minion
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