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What, Exactly, are the Great Achievements of the Islamic World?
moi

Posted on 01/11/2002 8:52:14 AM PST by ml/nj

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To: MarkL
Actually, during the middle ages, when Europe was in intellectual "darkness," the muslim world protected intellectual, scientific, and medical knowledge

I know that's the PC version. My question really is: what is the evidence?

Two of the great Jewish bible comentators were Maimonades (RAMBAM) and RASHI. Maimonades lived in the Islamic World and was chased all over it. Rashi lived more or less peacefully in France. You can read about them in the Britannica or similar sources. I know it's anecdotal evidence, but it is evidence that maybe some Jews fared better under the European Christians than others did during the "Golden Age" under the Muslims.

ML/NJ

41 posted on 01/11/2002 9:59:49 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj
The number zero.
42 posted on 01/11/2002 10:05:12 AM PST by Junior
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To: MosesKnows
What will you conclude from what they did contribute and what will you conclude from what they did not contribute?

What will I conclude?

Well, if I find some evidence it will increase my respect for them. If I do not, I may conclude that it is disinformation passed along intentionally or through ignorance. If it is disinformation then anyone who uses it is substantially discredited in all of their assertions the way I view things.

Okay?

ML/NJ

43 posted on 01/11/2002 10:07:05 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: MarkL
Check out the "Great Library of Alexandria," the greatest "librarian" of which was Hyapatia. She was tortured to death, when the library was sacked during the crusades (I believe).

You believe incorrectly. Hypatia was a pagan philosopher and mathematician who was tortured to death by a Christian mob in 415 AD. Pretty tough to blame this one on Mohammed, since he wasn't born till a couple of centuries later.

44 posted on 01/11/2002 10:08:28 AM PST by Restorer
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To: ml/nj
It is widely reputed that ancient Egyptians invented beer.

This is truly one of the greatest inventions of all civilization.

45 posted on 01/11/2002 10:21:03 AM PST by steve in DC
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To: ml/nj
Waxed toilet paper, to name just one...
46 posted on 01/11/2002 10:26:05 AM PST by tracer
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To: Non-Sequitur
That's an amazing list. I was only familiar with the achievements of al-Khwarizmi.
47 posted on 01/11/2002 10:30:22 AM PST by Truthsayer20
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To: Virginia-American
The Mayans and the Hindus both invented zero.

Wrong! Al Gore invented the zero.

48 posted on 01/11/2002 10:31:15 AM PST by Attillathehon
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To: Redbob
The magnificient camel -- transportation, food, water, and lover.


49 posted on 01/11/2002 10:44:27 AM PST by UberVernunft
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To: Virginia-American
And what were the Byzantines doing in the 13th century?

What contribution did the Normans and the Gauls make during the years after the fall of the Roman empire?

Admittedly, without the Scottish Enlightenment, we would all still be living in the sh!t of the monarchy, and Islam would still be a problem, but there did exist a golden age of Islam.

50 posted on 01/11/2002 10:48:59 AM PST by GEC
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To: Tallguy
Islam has yet to come out of its Dark Age.

It's not clear that it ever will.

51 posted on 01/11/2002 10:54:44 AM PST by GEC
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To: Restorer
Check out the "Great Library of Alexandria," the greatest "librarian" of which was Hyapatia. She was tortured to death, when the library was sacked during the crusades (I believe).

You believe incorrectly. Hypatia was a pagan philosopher and mathematician who was tortured to death by a Christian mob in 415 AD. Pretty tough to blame this one on Mohammed, since he wasn't born till a couple of centuries later.

This shows why I shouldn't try posting from work on my lunch break, using knowledge that I picked up 25 or 30 years ago... Things dim and get fuzzy over the years... I'd hate to try to calculate linear equations or a FFT!

Mark

52 posted on 01/11/2002 11:00:25 AM PST by MarkL
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To: ml/nj
The argument can and has been made that Islam's achievements were mostly the work of various older civilizations they conquered and enslaved.

The world has seen perhaps four or five great "center" civilizations, among them China. Two of these ancient, long-lived civilizations were Egypt and Mesopotamia-Assyria-Babylon-Persia (the name and capital changed, but it was essentially the same civilization reborn).

Islam has the distinction of having destroyed two of these great, long-enduring world civilizations. In the process, no doubt they learned a few things from captured libraries and slaves who were more civilized than their captors. But to all appearances the number of great, original Muslim thinkers is pretty small.

53 posted on 01/11/2002 11:15:55 AM PST by Cicero
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To: ml/nj
Don't overlook their accomplishments in the political realm.

Most Muslim countries are ruled by royal families and clerics under Islamic Law. It is the perfect system for despots. First, no one can argue with the leaders, or question their rule because to do so would violate their religion. Next, the rulers can live in luxury while the people live in poverty, because the rulers are blessed by Allah. Third, all of the frustrations the people feel over their lack of freedom and poverty can be directed to the infidels. Terrorism and suicides are given as ways to gain favor with Allah (and escape the repression and futilism of their every day existence.)

The Dems would love to have the same situation - ultimate power, total control and no one to question them!!!
54 posted on 01/11/2002 11:16:23 AM PST by John SBM
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To: JeepInMazar; lormand
They were the librarians for the West during the Dark Ages.

Bingo! As I understand it, the Greek and Latin classics were actually translated into those languages from Arabic.

That is true in Moorish Spain. However, to credit the Arabs with saving the Greek and Latin texts of Classical times completely ignores the existence of the Byzantine Empire during the West's Dark Ages.

The Byzantine Empire was the direct continuation of the Roman Empire in the East and survived until the Fall of Constantinople in 1453.

IN 1439, the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Byzantine Emperor, John VIII Paleologus, were guests of Florence and of Cosimo de Medici at the Echuminical Coucil of Florence. There was a great cultural exchange between Byzantine and Italian Renaissance scholars during this period that did more to diffuse Classical learning in the West than Arabs ever did.

55 posted on 01/11/2002 11:24:35 AM PST by Polybius
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To: Maceman
But you have to admit it [Arab architecture] hasn't exactly caught on throughout the rest of the world.

Actually, it caught on widely. The free-standing fountain was an Arab invention, an early form of "air conditioning." The air blowing over and through the fountain spray was humidified and thus felt cooler on those around the fountain. What we think of as "Spanish architecture" is really Arabic. Mission-style architecture (common all over California) was derived from the Spanish and thus indirectly from the Arabic.

56 posted on 01/11/2002 11:33:04 AM PST by ikanakattara
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To: Polybius
Thanks for the clarification!
57 posted on 01/11/2002 11:36:39 AM PST by lormand
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They also introduced the vihuela (?sp), forerunner of the guitar, into Moorish Spain (obviously not Taleban-style Muslims!).
58 posted on 01/11/2002 11:50:25 AM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Cicero
The argument can and has been made that Islam's achievements were mostly the work of various older civilizations they conquered and enslaved.

Pretty much the same argument could have been made of the Germanic barbarians who conquered Western Europe. They brought little original, at least in material things, to Western civilization. Instead, for most of a thousand years they attempted poor imitations of the Greek and Roman civilizations that preceded them.

In 1400, Western civilization had climbed back to a point roughly equal to the Islamic, Mogul, Chinese and Japanese civilizations. The interesting point is not that Islamic civilization stagnated at that point (as did the others), but rather that Western civ entered a 600 year period of amazing innovation and expansion which continues today.

The Moslems did do incredible work in creating a synthesis of Greek, Roman and Persian art, architecture and science and were significantly ahead of Western Europe from about 800-1400 CE.

Let's not get too cocky. Western civ can decline and fall as others have before it. Not because it's overthrown by outsiders, but from its own decadence.

59 posted on 01/11/2002 12:20:02 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Polybius
There was a great cultural exchange between Byzantine and Italian Renaissance scholars during this period that did more to diffuse Classical learning in the West than Arabs ever did.

Perhaps, but this did not occur to any significant amount till after 1400. By that time, a lot of Greek learning had made its way into Western Europe thru Spain and other Moslem conduits. I contend that this earlier Greek learning was far more influential in the history (even the formation) of Western civilization than some humanistic polishing acquired during the Renaissance.

Without the Greek modes of thought transmitted by the Moslems, it is unlikely there would have been a High Middle Ages or a Renaissance.

60 posted on 01/11/2002 12:30:58 PM PST by Restorer
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